mind trap discussions

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mind trap discussions

Post by ribot » 24 Jan 2003, 19:05

just for fun i wanted to discuss some questions in the mind trap topic, because some answers that are not meant for the riddles could be correct anyway from a perspective or another. or u could just say that some answers are wrong :]

this one for example:
mind trap wrote: Confucius carried 3 gold-pieces each weighing 1 kg. Confucius weighs 78 kgs. He comes to a bridge that can only carry 80 kgs. How do Confucius get over in only one go with all the gold-pieces?
the answer is supposed to be that you juggle the gold pieces. i talked to a physicist about this. he said, that if you stand on a scale, and weigh 78 kg, carry a ball that is 1 kg, the scale would show 79 kg (!). but then when u accelerate the ball (throw or catch it while juggling), the ball's weight on the scale will be a lot more than 1 kg. when you juggle (at least sometimes during the process), you do carry one ball in one hand, and accelerate another, meaning that your body would "weigh" more than 80 kgs.
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Post by Abula » 24 Jan 2003, 21:12

If you are fast and skillful enough you don't have to throw it too high and therefore not that much acceleration needed and therefore not that much power to throw and therefore not that much "more weight". So if all the time two spices are in the air you might be able to keep the "weight" under 80kg but most likely not but at least in theory.
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Post by ribot » 24 Jan 2003, 21:15

but can u juggle with two balls in the air all the time, and yet throw the ball low?
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Post by Abula » 24 Jan 2003, 21:18

ribot wrote:but can u juggle with two balls in the air all the time, and yet throw the ball low?
Me?-) I don't think so but maybe someone, at least in theory as I said.
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Post by ribot » 24 Jan 2003, 21:24

if u throw the balls low then u will have two in your hands, which means it doesnt matter how low u throw them u still weigh too much.
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Post by Abula » 24 Jan 2003, 22:17

ribot wrote:if u throw the balls low then u will have two in your hands, which means it doesnt matter how low u throw them u still weigh too much.
Hm? You can juggle with them that only one in hands at once, in theory. Amateurs use the tech where only one in air at once.
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Post by Jalli » 24 Jan 2003, 22:33

I've seen people who juggle 3 balls with one hand so I guess it's possible. I also believe that it is in theory possible to do that trick.
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Post by Abula » 24 Jan 2003, 23:19

Jalli wrote:I've seen people who juggle 3 balls with one hand so I guess it's possible. I also believe that it is in theory possible to do that trick.
In theory it's 100% sure it's possible. If you want to know it in practice you need to measure the acceleration of the needed minimun throwing power for the most skillful juggler in the world.
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Post by ribot » 25 Jan 2003, 02:13

where is that 100 % sure theory? u need to calculate how high u have to throw the balls to have two in the air at the same time, and add that acceleration to the weight.
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Post by chux » 25 Jan 2003, 14:49

lol! So funny to see such discussion over a hypotheitcal question...anyways, the riddles answer is "juggle them" so does it really matter? yes? ok then...
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Post by m0nkeii » 26 Jan 2003, 11:03

i don't think it matters how low you juggle them. if you jump onto the scales, even from a low height it makes you weigh more than you really do. this means that falling makes something weigh more for a sec so if he juggled them he would still be over the limit even if only by a milligram.

solution: throw them over to the other side :)
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Post by Ky.Jelly » 27 Jan 2003, 20:42

well i think its about time to post teh answers, caus it used to be two wuizes a day now its one a week
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Post by sierra » 30 Nov 2005, 16:18

don't throw the balls up, just drop them and juggle them like that. drop one, catch it before it hits the floor, drop the next, catch it, etc. with this technique the bridge would only even need to support 79kg
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Post by The_BoneLESS » 30 Nov 2005, 16:31

sierra wrote:don't throw the balls up, just drop them and juggle them like that. drop one, catch it before it hits the floor, drop the next, catch it, etc. with this technique the bridge would only even need to support 79kg
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Post by teajay » 30 Nov 2005, 17:48

In that way the gold piece will still weight over 1 kg when you catch, because there's energy of the accelerating piece that will fall on your hand.

Confucius should either put his boots off, or swing one gold piece of to the other end and then run really fast to catch it there. Practically he won't survive it with the other two pieces, because the lifting of the feet will make confucius weight more.

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Post by skint0r » 30 Nov 2005, 19:19

Or he could buy some hydrogen balloons from the nearby balloon salesman, which I'm sure there were an abundance of back then.
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Post by Xiphias » 30 Nov 2005, 19:27

Or he could just start losing some weight at the nearby gym :D :D
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This would 100% work:
Get rid of his cloths. Should way more than 1 kg. And the shoes.
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Post by Juski » 30 Nov 2005, 19:32

if your standing on the scales andconfucius is juggling with his golden balls the scale will eventhough it jumps alot the average will always be 81kg
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Post by teajay » 30 Nov 2005, 19:50

D'oh, and that average makes the proof that it isn't possible?
Furthermore, when I consider "your rules" the average weight won't be 81 kg, but less. Then again, considering more complex rules of physics the weight will at times be even more than 81 kg, as I said in my earlier post.

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Post by Juski » 30 Nov 2005, 20:03

yes, at times there will be more then 81kg, at other times less then 81kg, the average will be on 81kg, and as the bridge only can hold 80kg it would be impossible yes.
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Post by The_BoneLESS » 1 Dec 2005, 01:56

Well, sierra's trick would work if you juggle down only once and if the bridge was like 10 cm long...
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Post by teajay » 1 Dec 2005, 09:59

Juski wrote:yes, at times there will be more then 81kg, at other times less then 81kg, the average will be on 81kg, and as the bridge only can hold 80kg it would be impossible yes.
I do not understand how you could be so sure of that average. Not that it matters anyway, what the heck. And BoneLESS, you're absolutely right. :P

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Post by Xiphias » 2 Dec 2005, 15:36

If the man took of his shirt. Tied the 3kg coins/balls what ever it was, to the end of one arm. And held the other arm.
Then swing it around very quickly. Just like you do with a bucket of water. to get the water "hang" in the bottom.
That way the 3kg's would weigh less. But how much less i don't know.

If anyone understands what I just wrote :roll: :roll: :?
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Post by Juski » 2 Dec 2005, 19:38

still the same problem there xiphias, if you spin it vertically it will wheigh more then 81kg when its down, and if you spin it horisontally it wont affect the amount of wheight it presses down on the bridge vertically, i think somehting like that. :X
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Post by teajay » 3 Dec 2005, 10:03

You're half right, juski, and even that's enough to blow up Xiphias' theory.

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Post by Juski » 3 Dec 2005, 12:30

yeh the problem is really impossible, because using a method that works for infinity (or atleast a method were it doesn't matter how long the bridge is) is impossible to do if we want to carry 81kg in total over a bridge that carries only 80kg.

If we throw a ball in the air repeteadly so that it is in the air 2/3s of the time it will wheigh approximetly 3 times its wheight in the upthrowing process.
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Post by MagnusB » 5 Dec 2005, 15:42

Confucius should go to a store and spend all his coins on a rope, which he can use to get over. Then he can throw away the rope, since he's now light enough to get over anyway.

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Post by jonsi » 5 Dec 2005, 21:13

scince we are talking about alternative solutions..
walk many times, ofcourse if people wouldnt be so lazy there would be no problems such these... :roll:
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Post by Sick_Mambo » 19 Mar 2008, 22:50

He would never make it across even without the coins.

As he walks his weight hitting the bridge will temporarily hit the bridge with more than 80 kg's as his weight settles.

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Post by teajay » 19 Mar 2008, 23:01

Who said that newton was right really? Maybe confucius defies his laws by applying confucius physics.

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Post by Igge » 13 Apr 2008, 23:37

throw the 3 pieces of gold into the air (and have them stay close together when 'flying') then you jump, catch them in the air, throw them again before you land, and when you land you jump again, catch the pieces, throw them and land etc

would work if he had max skill in timing teh, so he can make very small jumps.
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Post by gimp » 14 Apr 2008, 01:25

if you do in fact juggle with one hand, that means your weight could only ever be 79kg + the weight of the acceleration it brings down after falling.

solution, learn how to juggle three pieces with one hand fast enough so that you only ever have one piece in one hand, and keep them low enough so that the acceleration will not outweigh the bridge, should work this way. dont know how to do the math of this, maybe somebody could figure out how much more weight 1kg will add from falling a foot or so?
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Post by Are » 14 Apr 2008, 01:37

Mythbusters tested a similar theory, where a trailer filled with birds would weigh less if all the birds flew around inside, thus allowing the trailer to pass over a bridge that could hold the weight of an empty trailer.

It didn't work :)

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Post by A.K.B. » 14 Apr 2008, 06:55

Just be me, jump across the whole bridge with all the gold in hand. Use the gold as halteres, but just don't let go of them.
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Post by teajay » 14 Apr 2008, 11:12

Somehow you don't fit the image you're trying to create of yourself, samuel.

Oh, and I don't mean the avatar.

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Post by A.K.B. » 14 Apr 2008, 12:24

Maybe I should instead start juggling high and eventually reach low, juggling faster? (!)
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Post by Zweq » 14 Apr 2008, 12:33

dont think he would pass the bridge even if he didnt have the stuff with him. 78kg might be his mass but he will definetily weigh over 80kg at times even when trying to do very cautious walking

then again that's kinda stupid since the whole thing is so theoretical that impsy to think it in practical way. liek 79.99999999 is np but 80 bajbaj
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Post by Kale » 14 Apr 2008, 16:48

Let's send adam and jamie a letter

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Post by gimp » 15 Apr 2008, 03:03

i think this riddles kind of worn out., lets try a new one.

you wake up in a room with two men, behind each man there's a door, one which is the exit and another a bottomless pit, one man always lies, where the other always tells the truth, you dont know which door is which nor which one is the truthful or lying man. you may ask one question to one of the two men to figure out the exit door, what do you ask?
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Post by Are » 15 Apr 2008, 04:40

Ask one of them "If I asked your companion which door was the exit, which door would he point to?".

The truthful man would point to the door with the bottomless pit, as that's what the lying man would do.
The lying man would also point to the door with the bottomless pit, as that's the opposite of what the truthful man would do.

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Post by Igge » 15 Apr 2008, 10:33

dame, try nat to do riddels u first heard like 10 yers ago
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Post by Kale » 15 Apr 2008, 14:57

lol'd at jappes stupid joke =)

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Post by gimp » 16 Apr 2008, 03:43

Jappe wrote:these 2 men are obviously lovers. i would start kissing the other passionately and then ask the second man "jealous?" if the man says no, he is the liar.
other solution is just to open the doors and check.
i would choose to jump in the bottomless pit thou, whats better than to die
of starvation in an endless freefall?
i guess this was a nice attempt at humor, but all that would do is tell you who the liar is, which really doesnt necessarily tell you what door to go through. Are has the right answer.
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Re:

Post by chux » 22 May 2008, 15:29

gimp wrote:
Jappe wrote:these 2 men are obviously lovers. i would start kissing the other passionately and then ask the second man "jealous?" if the man says no, he is the liar.
i guess this was a nice attempt at humor, but all that would do is tell you who the liar is, which really doesnt necessarily tell you what door to go through. Are has the right answer.
Nice attempt? It was hilarous :D

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Re: mind trap discussions

Post by teajay » 22 May 2008, 18:10

No more riddles, forbidden, lock.

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