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Which ban style?
Poll ended at 2 Nov 2012, 22:45
Style 1 (current) 13%  13%  [ 3 ]
Style 2 (many 2 weeks) 42%  42%  [ 10 ]
Style 3 (even curve) 46%  46%  [ 11 ]
Total votes : 24
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 Post subject: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 2 Oct 2012, 22:45 
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Kuski
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Joined: 23 May 2002, 13:59
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Location: In a northern danish city beating YOUR record.
With few opinions in the original thread about this specific issue, I will stray from all common sense and follow Bjenn's suggestion of making a poll (no offense, we kid because we love :P). So basically do you think the ban system should stay the same (option 1) or do you think it needs a bit of a change, and in that case how (option 2 & 3).

Disclaimer: This poll will not necessarily dictate how and if the system will change, but will only be used as a guidance in the progress.

Good arguments will weight high.

Style 1
This is current style.
1st time: Warning
2nd time: 1 week ban
3rd time: 2 week ban
4th time: 1 year ban
(Always with the possiblity to go directly to higher tiers in serious cases)
Reasoning: There's a warning and a couple short warning bans first, but if you don't get it after 3 violations you never will and we take away your rights for a long time.

Style 2
1st time: Warning
2nd time: 1 week ban
3rd time: 2 week ban
4th time: 2 week ban
5th time: 2 week ban
6th time: 2 week ban
7th time: 2 week ban
8th time: 2 week ban
9th time: 2 week ban
10th time: 1 year ban
(Always with the possiblity to go directly to higher tiers in serious cases)
Reasoning: Even after 3 violations you might do some very minor violation and that shouldn't have so big a consequense as 1 year.

Style 3
1st time: Warning
2nd time: 1 week ban
3rd time: 2 week ban
4th time: 1 month ban
5th time: 2 month ban
6th time: 4 month ban
7th time: 6 month ban
8th time: 8 month ban
9th time: 10 month ban
10th time: 1 year ban
(Always with the possiblity to go directly to higher tiers in serious cases)
Reasoning: An even curve up to the 1 year ban.


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 2 Oct 2012, 22:54 
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39mins club
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Joined: 9 May 2003, 13:30
Posts: 4441
Location: Valmiera, Latvia
Style 2 makes sense in a casual community such as ours. Exceptions can always be made.


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 3 Oct 2012, 00:16 
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Kuski
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Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 19:56
Posts: 5562
Location: Southampton, UK
as long as the english-only rule is a bid weakened, I think that each ban should be longer than the previous one. As Kopa said
Kopaka wrote:
Even after 3 violations you might do some very minor violation and that shouldn't have so big a consequense as 1 year.
, but if the violator gets only 2 weeks each time, I'd say that's not very discouraging. If the penalty is 2 times longer each time, just another small violence won't have that tragic consequences, but it has some, which points out to the villain: "you'd better watch out lad, this one gets you a month which a hell lot already, but the next one will be 2 months! beware!"


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 3 Oct 2012, 08:44 
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39mins club
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Location: Deep in your Imagination, Twirling your Dreams and Weaving your thoughts.
there is no reason to weaken the english only rule. How do you weaken something like that? You are either speaking english or not. If you aren't, you break rule. Simple. It's also entirely your choice. If it's weakened, then you just get idiath russians speaking in idiath language all the time cause who cares if english only rule, it's only guideline.


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 3 Oct 2012, 09:07 
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Kuski
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Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 19:56
Posts: 5562
Location: Southampton, UK
it's been talked about already and everybody seemed to agree that it's too harsh...


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 3 Oct 2012, 12:36 
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Kuski
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Joined: 6 Jan 2009, 13:08
Posts: 1993
Location: Srdcom vychodniar
i vote for the option 4.
no. 1 seems too cruel;
no. 2 seems too weak;
no. 3 seems too many mid-steps. If someone did get all these bans consecutively, he would be banned like 3 years, and what i really think is, if elma scene will continue for more than 3 years.. (it will prolly.)
So i think something like:
warning
1 week
2 week
1 month
3 month
1 year
that´s it.


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 3 Oct 2012, 13:40 
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35mins club
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Joined: 28 Nov 2002, 15:54
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I guess maximum 1 month chat ban for nonenglish language would be sufficient, while for spamming in caps maximum of 1 year is completely fine. Otherwise I'm content with the current system. At the end of the day you have to be really mongo to get a 1 year ban...


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 3 Oct 2012, 13:42 
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Kuski
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Joined: 5 Feb 2010, 00:25
Posts: 2760
Location: expensive land of dads
Haruhi wrote:
there is no reason to weaken the english only rule. How do you weaken something like that? You are either speaking english or not. If you aren't, you break rule. Simple. It's also entirely your choice. If it's weakened, then you just get idiath russians speaking in idiath language all the time cause who cares if english only rule, it's only guideline.
It's not that simple. Pretty often there are situations when you're having a short discussion with someone in the public chat (because private is a facking pain :E), don't know some word and just say it in another language for convenience. Example: "haru is a mighty fine hongankolistaja".

I think common sense has always been used with elma bans and it should stay that way. The community is small: that actually works. People need to use the report function if they think there's something bannable happening and a moderator can simply ban if it's obvious, or discuss it with other moderators etc. fds


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 3 Oct 2012, 14:04 
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Kuski
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Joined: 26 Sep 2007, 07:33
Posts: 134
Location: Poznan, Poland
Style 3 is for real? You have to receive bans constantly for over 2,5 years to get to the highest level? That's ridiculous.

Style 2 also isn't good for me, maybe two or three 2 weeks periods would be enough, seven is too much.

Style 1 seems to be the best so I would keep it. Only little change here:

1st time: Warning
2nd time: 1 week ban
3rd time: 1 month ban
4th time: 1 year ban

EDIT: voted Style 1 ofc. Also I don't care that much coz I don't think I will get ban.


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 3 Oct 2012, 18:57 
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Kuski
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Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 19:56
Posts: 5562
Location: Southampton, UK
Pascal wrote:
Style 3 is for real? You have to receive bans constantly for over 2,5 years to get to the highest level? That's ridiculous.
reach your common sense for once pascal, how does it matter? if you get bans one after another you don't play at all anyway, so who cares when you reach the maximum level o,o your argument is by far the worst here so far


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 3 Oct 2012, 19:36 
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Kuski
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Joined: 5 Apr 2007, 12:30
Posts: 1160
Location: Norway, Sandnes
Could make it simplified

1st time: Warning
2nd time: :lmao: Lifetime


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 3 Oct 2012, 19:42 
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Kuski
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Joined: 26 Sep 2007, 07:33
Posts: 134
Location: Poznan, Poland
Pawq wrote:
Pascal wrote:
Style 3 is for real? You have to receive bans constantly for over 2,5 years to get to the highest level? That's ridiculous.
reach your common sense for once pascal, how does it matter? if you get bans one after another you don't play at all anyway, so who cares when you reach the maximum level o,o your argument is by far the worst here so far


So what is it needed for? Fortunately your common sense works very well...

EDIT: wow, actually it looks like I care when obviously I don't give a shit about your opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 3 Oct 2012, 20:04 
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Kuski
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Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 19:56
Posts: 5562
Location: Southampton, UK
so that when you make some insignificant violence of the rules, even accidentally, you're not fucked for life.


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 3 Oct 2012, 20:27 
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35mins club
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Joined: 1 Jan 2009, 10:51
Posts: 2085
Location: London, UK
Why should the ban duration depend on the number of preceding bans at all? It should always be the same.


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 3 Oct 2012, 21:00 
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Kuski
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Joined: 6 Jan 2009, 13:08
Posts: 1993
Location: Srdcom vychodniar
Pawq wrote:
Pascal wrote:
Style 3 is for real? You have to receive bans constantly for over 2,5 years to get to the highest level? That's ridiculous.
reach your common sense for once pascal, how does it matter? if you get bans one after another you don't play at all anyway, so who cares when you reach the maximum level o,o your argument is by far the worst here so far

common sense :? again shining


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 3 Oct 2012, 21:22 
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Kuski
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Joined: 5 Feb 2010, 00:25
Posts: 2760
Location: expensive land of dads
Madness wrote:
Why should the ban duration depend on the number of preceding bans at all? It should always be the same.
Because of the possibility that you made a single mistake or learned your lesson. Which is when common sense from the moderator is needed again.


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 4 Oct 2012, 03:15 
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39mins club
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Joined: 19 Nov 2005, 10:45
Posts: 4536
Location: Deep in your Imagination, Twirling your Dreams and Weaving your thoughts.
Lousku wrote:
Haruhi wrote:
there is no reason to weaken the english only rule. How do you weaken something like that? You are either speaking english or not. If you aren't, you break rule. Simple. It's also entirely your choice. If it's weakened, then you just get idiath russians speaking in idiath language all the time cause who cares if english only rule, it's only guideline.
It's not that simple. Pretty often there are situations when you're having a short discussion with someone in the public chat (because private is a facking pain :E), don't know some word and just say it in another language for convenience. Example: "haru is a mighty fine hongankolistaja".

I think common sense has always been used with elma bans and it should stay that way. The community is small: that actually works. People need to use the report function if they think there's something bannable happening and a moderator can simply ban if it's obvious, or discuss it with other moderators etc. fds


Of course i agree. In the cases where words aren't known, it's fine to use a single word or two in the midst of an english sentence. I don't think ANYONE has a problem with that. Also never saw any bans because of it.

If they are ignoring teh rule and speaking many lines in finnish (any more than maybe 2 lines) then ez to yell at them first. If they continue, ban.


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 4 Oct 2012, 08:30 
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35mins club
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Joined: 25 Apr 2007, 14:23
Posts: 2236
Location: Östersund, Sweden
Zweq wrote:
I guess maximum 1 month chat ban for nonenglish language would be sufficient, while for spamming in caps maximum of 1 year is completely fine. Otherwise I'm content with the current system. At the end of the day you have to be really mongo to get a 1 year ban...

Indeed you have to =D
http://kopasite.net/up/0/BjenBan.png


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 4 Oct 2012, 08:32 
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Kuski
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Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 19:56
Posts: 5562
Location: Southampton, UK
indeed, what a mongo would start so many old/int balles having already been banned/warned :(


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 4 Oct 2012, 08:40 
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35mins club
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Joined: 25 Apr 2007, 14:23
Posts: 2236
Location: Östersund, Sweden
Nobody told me about those warnings/bans from earlier, I really had no idea I was living on the edge ;D
Well It's not my loss that you can't play all my good battle levels that I have made, they are just lying around on my hdd now.
Also losing special battle right wasn't a big deal since you are not even allowed to start internal battle, as proven!


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 4 Oct 2012, 08:55 
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Kuski
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Joined: 5 Feb 2010, 00:25
Posts: 2760
Location: expensive land of dads
Bjenn wrote:
Nobody told me about those warnings/bans from earlier, I really had no idea I was living on the edge ;D
How's a message on the site not enough? :|


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 4 Oct 2012, 09:09 
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35mins club
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Joined: 25 Apr 2007, 14:23
Posts: 2236
Location: Östersund, Sweden
Message in a form of having to go to your personal page, scrolling down to the bottom and check? No i don't do that, I don't even check my stats. Anyway enough of this, keep writing what this topic is about!

I vote for style 3 with this argument: Steady increase of ban time, perfectly fitting for EOL.
Btw quote from Kopaka "(Always with the possiblity to go directly to higher tiers in serious cases)" If you have a system, don't you follow it independent of what the ground is? What would be such an extreme case where you would jump directly to 1 year ban?


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 4 Oct 2012, 09:24 
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Kuski
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Joined: 6 Jan 2009, 13:08
Posts: 1993
Location: Srdcom vychodniar
hacking eol server and deleting everything :D


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 4 Oct 2012, 22:38 
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Kuski
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Joined: 5 Dec 2008, 16:19
Posts: 1013
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I would prefer something like this.

warning
1 hour - 1 week (within admin discretion)
1 month
1 year
pentameter ban


I don't think current EOL system is harsh. Usually it's warning then permanent ban on some game servers that I know. Anyway some offenses can be dealt with other penalties like stripping rights to start battles or muting players etc.

Bjenn wrote:
Btw quote from Kopaka "(Always with the possiblity to go directly to higher tiers in serious cases)" If you have a system, don't you follow it independent of what the ground is? What would be such an extreme case where you would jump directly to 1 year ban?

Bjenn if system says that you can skip some tiers than Kopaka is perfectly following the system. Tiers are good fit for repeat offenders.


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 4 Oct 2012, 23:07 
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Kuski
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Joined: 6 Jan 2009, 13:08
Posts: 1993
Location: Srdcom vychodniar
repeat offenders have no place in this community.


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 Post subject: Re: EOL Banning tiers
PostPosted: 7 Oct 2012, 18:22 
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Kuski
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Joined: 26 Feb 2008, 07:11
Posts: 2766
Location: Not on lauta
just kill people already and we won't need bans anymore


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