are you a christian?

Xiphias · Post by **Xiphias** » 29 Mar 2006, 14:39

Henkjan wrote:hmm, no reactions

My reason is this..... i'm never going to read this crap.

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 29 Mar 2006, 15:18

i'm just saying it because someone shows me a site that is supose to prove that humans are created by evolution by showing me a site.
i am trying to prove that it's wrong and i get no reaction

teajay · Post by **teajay** » 29 Mar 2006, 18:12

The formation of the Earth is what is known as a "singularity." The event cannot be repeated in a lab and is not occurring in nature now.

I don't agree.

Precise measurements of the Earth's magnetic field have been made since 1829, all over the world. During that time, it has deteriorated exponentially -- that is, it has followed a predictable curve. By graphing this curve, we extrapolate that life would have been impossible before 20,000 BC (the field would be as strong as the Sun's at that point) and will cease to exist after 10,000 AD (there will be, for all practical purposes, no field left, and the Earth will be fried by cosmic radiation).

I don't agree.

Earth Rotation. The Earth's spin is slowing down. We experience a "leap second" every year and a half. If it is slowing down, at one time it was going much faster. A faster spin would create a stronger Coriolis Effect, and life would be impossible as we know it.

This sounds vague. Also, why isn't life possible with a faster spin?

Moon Drift. The moon is drifting slowly away from the Earth. If it is getting further away, then at one time it was much closer. The Inverse Square Law in physics states that if the moon was half the distance away, its gravitational effect on our tides would be quadrupled. One third the distance and it would be 9 times stronger. We would all drown twice a day. 1.2 billion (1,200 million) years ago, the moon would have been touching the Earth.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/moonrec.html

Interestingly, they all seem to indicate a Young Earth, or certainly, not one that is millions or billions of years old.

I don't agree.

JAMES · Post by **JAMES** » 29 Mar 2006, 19:08

http://www.gate.net/~rwms/AgeEarth.html <---Read this hank

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 29 Mar 2006, 20:41

there is too mutch to read, i read so mutch that i forget what i read.
just get to the point

Post by **SveinR** » 29 Mar 2006, 21:03

Henkjan wrote:hmm, no reactions

I'll make a response soon, just haven't gotten around to it yet.

teajay · Post by **teajay** » 29 Mar 2006, 21:04

Henkjan wrote:there is too mutch to read, i read so mutch that i forget what i read.
just get to the point

The point is there for you to read. That single page is quite concise compared to this eloborate page which I think explains a lot.

Anyway this is nothing compared to the bible.

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 30 Mar 2006, 14:38

the bible doesn't use all those hard words. not if you buy a new bible.
old bibles are like allmost direct translated from ......... to english.
so that is hard to understand. but new bibles are easier to read.
i made a mistake

i made my gf feel bad..

i feel so stupid. i should just have accepted her the way she is, but i guess i'm too late

i wanna do something special for her.. can anyone here help me?
i just need something befor tonight.. please.

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 30 Mar 2006, 16:44

Henkjan wrote:the bible doesn't use all those hard words. not if you buy a new bible.
old bibles are like allmost direct translated from ......... to english.
so that is hard to understand. but new bibles are easier to read.
i made a mistake i made my gf feel bad..
i feel so stupid. i should just have accepted her the way she is, but i guess i'm too late
i wanna do something special for her.. can anyone here help me?
i just need something befor tonight.. please.

i dont know if you like this idea but do this : fuck her:)

niN · Post by **niN** » 30 Mar 2006, 16:46

Describe fuck ^^

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 30 Mar 2006, 17:59

i don't do that befor marrige..

Xiphias · Post by **Xiphias** » 30 Mar 2006, 19:15

Henkjan wrote:i don't do that befor marrige..

Then marry her today

Post by **SveinR** » 31 Mar 2006, 03:45

Ok, my turn. And Henkjan, please read the whole post eventhogh it might seem like a lot.

Henkjan wrote: Precise measurements of the Earth's magnetic field have been made since 1829, all over the world. During that time, it has deteriorated exponentially -- that is, it has followed a predictable curve. By graphing this curve, we extrapolate that life would have been impossible before 20,000 BC (the field would be as strong as the Sun's at that point) and will cease to exist after 10,000 AD.

This sounds extremely unlikely, and I think this is just bullshit which cannot be backed up by any scientific analyses. For instance, we know that the Earth's magnetic field completely reversed last time 600,000 years ago (by evidence found in solidified lava). And we know this has happened many times before that time too. Don't you think if what is claimed in that quote was true it would be alot more well-known? It would have been a scientific sensation.

Henkjan wrote:Earth Rotation. The Earth's spin is slowing down. We experience a "leap second" every year and a half. If it is slowing down, at one time it was going much faster. A faster spin would create a stronger Coriolis Effect, and life would be impossible as we know it.

You're right, the Earth's spin is slowing down. This is caused by the tidal effect of the Moon. The day is slowing down by one thousandth of a second each century, and when the earth formed, the day was around 5-6 hours long. Life would be possible even if the Earth was rotating this rapidly, however, when life indeed started forming on the Earth the spin had slowed down considerably from this. So your quote here has no point.

Henkjan wrote:Moon Drift. The moon is drifting slowly away from the Earth. If it is getting further away, then at one time it was much closer. The Inverse Square Law in physics states that if the moon was half the distance away, its gravitational effect on our tides would be quadrupled. One third the distance and it would be 9 times stronger. We would all drown twice a day. 1.2 billion (1,200 million) years ago, the moon would have been touching the Earth.

That last sentence is wrong, just plain wrong. But you are right, the moon is drifting away from the Earth, and this is the same process that causes the Earth's rotation to slow down. The Moon is drifting away from the Earth at a rate of 3.8cm per year, and this tells us that the Moon, when it was formed, was about one-tenth its current distance from the Earth. And the Moon was formed about 4.5 billion years ago. This proves your last sentence in this quote to be clearly wrong.
Then your quote goes on to say that this gravitational effect would make us drown, well, yes, if the tides were as high now as they were then we would drown. But these super-high tides are one of the main reasons that life started evolving on Earth, as it dissolved minerals so this process could start. Once again, your quote says nothing of value.

Henkjan wrote:Age of the Earth: Young is Not Unreasonable
There are a number of additional Limiting Factors regarding the Age of the Earth that scientists are discovering on a more and more frequent basis. Interestingly, they all seem to indicate a Young Earth, or certainly, not one that is millions or billions of years old. Contrary to the general thinking of the last century, many scientists now accept that it is reasonable to view the Earth as fairly young.

I believe this to be a clear lie with no truth in it whatsoever. And we do have clear evidence that the Earth is several billion years old, from studying the amount of radioactive isotopes in the rock. And all such measurements indicate an Earth older than 4 billion years.

As you should know from reading my comments in this thread, I do not care that you're a Christian, you are free to believe whatever you want in my book. But please, don't just blatantly ignore clear, 100% true scientific discoveries, don't unquestioningly accept what sites such as the one where you found these alleged "proofs" that the Earth was young. They are equally full of bullshit as the "historic revisionist" sites that try to prove the Holocaust didn't occur.

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 31 Mar 2006, 14:41

why would they lie, and why would you tell the truth?
ok. it's over, me and my gf.
i don't know if i should feel bad or good.

Harald Hasch · Post by **Harald Hasch** » 1 Apr 2006, 03:46

@henkian
just because your religion tells you not to lie, doesnt mean their telling the truth! exactly laik you eat meat (i suppose) and your religion tells you nat to kill!

and, men, feel good

jaytea · Post by **jaytea** » 1 Apr 2006, 04:25

Henkjan wrote: ok. it's over, me and my gf.

this is indeed wonderful news. i cant tell you just how overjoyed i am to read this, seriously. some might consider it weird how i get such pleasure out of your misfortune.. i honestly dont care. is your heart broken? i certainly hope it is, i wish the rest of you would follow its example and break accordingly. when i read what you wrote, i licked the screen happily, it made me laugh like a viking. no, like a lumberjack. NO! like a lumberjack turned viking.. with a beard.. a huge powerful beard, one that took many many months to grow. your sorrow is so delicious, i wish i could taste your tears. i'd fill up a shot glass and sip it delicately, whilst laughing though not like a viking.. more like a native american tribesman. obviously, i would laugh after swallowing my sips, as not doing so may result in choking

Harald Hasch · Post by **Harald Hasch** » 1 Apr 2006, 05:06

thats very kind

teajay · Post by **teajay** » 1 Apr 2006, 10:14

Henkjan wrote:why would they lie, and why would you tell the truth?

Well, I do know why they would lie: because they can't find good scientific arguments to prove the existence of god. Scientists don't necessarily tell the truth, they just are in constant search of it and try to get as close to it as possible.

Religion and science are just those two things that don't, and shouldn't be tried to mix. Problem is that creationists lobby to have bible lessons in school, and use these false arguments to weaken the evolution theory, so that it sounds reasonable to educate the other theory aswell.

So I suggest you refrain from that pseudo-science and try to convince people (If you really want to spread the word) with that what really matters in religion; emotions, dedication etc.

Post by **SveinR** » 2 Apr 2006, 03:56

Henkjan wrote:why would they lie, and why would you tell the truth?

Well, for starters, I have no agenda behind my words, and I just tried to bring forth what today's science would say about those claims you posted.

Now, why would they lie? By they I assume you mean the site where you got that information. I would further assume that that site is one of so-called Young Earth Creationists, who I've done a little reading on and they make the same claims you posted.

I will now posts some quotes from wikipedia about YEC:

wikipedia wrote: The defining characteristic of this belief is that the Earth is "young", on the order of 6,000 to 10,000 years old, rather than the age of 4.5 billion years estimated by a variety of scientific methods including radiometric dating. Some YECs derive this range of figures using the ages given in the genealogies and other dates in the Bible.
[...]
Young Earth creationism is normally characterized as opposing evolution, though it also opposes many claims and theories in the fields of geology, astronomy, genomics and any other fields of science that have developed theories or made claims incompatible with the Young Earth version of world history. YECs are fundamentally opposed to any explanation for the origins of anything which replaces God as the universal creator as reported in the Bible, whether it be the origins of biological diversity, the origins of life or the origins of the universe itself.

wikipedia wrote: Young Earth creationists state that their position is based upon a reading of the Bible as a historically accurate, factually inerrant record of natural history in addition to being their moral guide.

wikipedia wrote: Over the past century and a half, several scientific disciplines have found evidence which conflicts with many Young Earth creationist claims. This includes findings from geology, paleontology, molecular biology, dendrochronology, genomics, physical anthropology, astronomy, physics and archaeology, amongst other sciences.
[...]
Young Earth creationists are also accused of "quote mining", selectively and dishonestly quoting statements and evidence from mainstream science in order to support their assertions, while omitting significant context and mentions of contrary evidence.

So, their reasons for lying: They have one goal, and that is to try to prove everything the Bible says is correct, and that the Bible is inerrant also when it comes to such topics as the age of the Earth. This is not science, you can't have made your conclusions before your research. They want to make people like you

Henkjan wrote:i'm not an educated intelligent well-read guy.

, who don't know much about these things and don't wish to do too much reading on the subject, believe what they say. In this process they actively ignore all scientific evidence pointing towards other conclusions than their own.

Final words: But what does it really matter? Why do you have to take absolutely everything the Bible says literally? Why not just care about the things in the Bible that really matters, and that is very important: The teachings of Jesus.

Harald Hasch · Post by **Harald Hasch** » 2 Apr 2006, 05:16

and btw the bible got overwrought a couple times the last 200-300 years, also to egg on fundamentalism, ffs why?

i would luv to see the original one, but that will never happen, sad but true.

simon_labroue · Post by **simon_labroue** » 2 Apr 2006, 06:31

Henkjan wrote:he put the plants on the world for us to watch and to enjoy them. not to smoke them.

I wanted to know... is it written in the Bible that we must not smoke them? I say they are there for that!

P.S.: SveinR is right by saying that only the values in the Bible are worth to be taken seriously.

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 2 Apr 2006, 15:45

simon_labroue wrote:
Henkjan wrote:he put the plants on the world for us to watch and to enjoy them. not to smoke them.
I wanted to know... is it written in the Bible that we must not smoke them? I say they are there for that!

P.S.: SveinR is right by saying that only the values in the Bible are worth to be taken seriously.

it is written in the bible that you must take good care of your body.
smoking is not good for your body, so yes the bible says that.

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 2 Apr 2006, 15:48

SveinR wrote:
Henkjan wrote:.

Final words: But what does it really matter? Why do you have to take absolutely everything the Bible says literally? Why not just care about the things in the Bible that really matters, and that is very important: The teachings of Jesus.

i do that alsow.

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 2 Apr 2006, 15:51

tijsjoris wrote:
Henkjan wrote:why would they lie, and why would you tell the truth?
Well, I do know why they would lie: because they can't find good scientific arguments to prove the existence of god. Scientists don't necessarily tell the truth, they just are in constant search of it and try to get as close to it as possible.

Religion and science are just those two things that don't, and shouldn't be tried to mix. Problem is that creationists lobby to have bible lessons in school, and use these false arguments to weaken the evolution theory, so that it sounds reasonable to educate the other theory aswell.

So I suggest you refrain from that pseudo-science and try to convince people (If you really want to spread the word) with that what really matters in religion; emotions, dedication etc.

well alot of religious people that try to get scientific evidence that th big bang is impossible etc are ignored. and i have to say again that it is even proved by non-religous scientists.

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 2 Apr 2006, 15:53

jaytea wrote:
Henkjan wrote: ok. it's over, me and my gf.
this is indeed wonderful news. i cant tell you just how overjoyed i am to read this, seriously. some might consider it weird how i get such pleasure out of your misfortune.. i honestly dont care. is your heart broken? i certainly hope it is, i wish the rest of you would follow its example and break accordingly. when i read what you wrote, i licked the screen happily, it made me laugh like a viking. no, like a lumberjack. NO! like a lumberjack turned viking.. with a beard.. a huge powerful beard, one that took many many months to grow. your sorrow is so delicious, i wish i could taste your tears. i'd fill up a shot glass and sip it delicately, whilst laughing though not like a viking.. more like a native american tribesman. obviously, i would laugh after swallowing my sips, as not doing so may result in choking

thanks! but i don't feel so bad at all, afterall i justed wanted her to be happy.

Post by **SveinR** » 2 Apr 2006, 17:03

Henkjan wrote: well alot of religious people that try to get scientific evidence that th big bang is impossible etc are ignored. and i have to say again that it is even proved by non-religous scientists.

Have you even read my two last posts? Seriously.

jonsterion · Post by **jonsterion** » 2 Apr 2006, 17:14

Henkjan wrote:
tijsjoris wrote:
Henkjan wrote:why would they lie, and why would you tell the truth?
Well, I do know why they would lie: because they can't find good scientific arguments to prove the existence of god. Scientists don't necessarily tell the truth, they just are in constant search of it and try to get as close to it as possible.

Religion and science are just those two things that don't, and shouldn't be tried to mix. Problem is that creationists lobby to have bible lessons in school, and use these false arguments to weaken the evolution theory, so that it sounds reasonable to educate the other theory aswell.

So I suggest you refrain from that pseudo-science and try to convince people (If you really want to spread the word) with that what really matters in religion; emotions, dedication etc.
well alot of religious people that try to get scientific evidence that th big bang is impossible etc are ignored. and i have to say again that it is even proved by non-religous scientists.

ThatÂ´s why you wonÂ´t find many religious scientists.

teajay · Post by **teajay** » 2 Apr 2006, 17:34

You can complain that religious scientists are being ignored, but I feel you're ignoring a whole bunch of people too, henkjan. Or at least their arguments.

simon_labroue · Post by **simon_labroue** » 2 Apr 2006, 18:22

Non-religious or religious scientists are all the same. Science is objective you know. You must not put your subjective feelings or beliefs into that.

Henkjan wrote:
simon_labroue wrote:
Henkjan wrote:he put the plants on the world for us to watch and to enjoy them. not to smoke them.
is it written in the Bible that we must not smoke them?
it is written in the bible that you must take good care of your body.
smoking is not good for your body, so yes the bible says that.

in the case that a powerful drug is found in nature, and that it's more beneficial for your body (in all the senses (i.e.: psychologically and physically)) to smoke it once in a while than not smoking it, then the Bible says that's right to do so.

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 2 Apr 2006, 19:29

your limatations are wrong, all of them
moon is bot leaving earth lineary (so if it moves some meters a year, that doesnt mean it was moving that fast before)
intensity of magnetic field is unstable and it has about sinus dependency
that;s why there were iceages and so (mf swapped)
rotation speed is also not slowing down.. it doesn't have linear dependency (ez count), it's slowing down only nowadays

ok other limitation
we can find bones of dinosaurs and you can get the age of them with some carbon method and you'll get some 250milions..
so the age must be higher

teajay · Post by **teajay** » 2 Apr 2006, 20:32

simon_labroue wrote:Non-religious or religious scientists are all the same. Science is objective you know. You must not put your subjective feelings or beliefs into that.

Yeah, you're right. Read religious scientists as "pseudo-science creationists" and I hope you'll get my point.

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 3 Apr 2006, 08:38

i'm not ignoring anyone. and i try to read as many as i can.
i just don't believe it, that's a big diffence.

Post by **SveinR** » 3 Apr 2006, 17:42

Henkjan wrote:i'm not ignoring anyone. and i try to read as many as i can.
i just don't believe it, that's a big diffence.

But you choose to believe the Young Earth Creationists claims who systematically ignores and opposes all scientific evidence pointing towards other conclusions than their own?

You're allowed to believe what you want, but believing the Earth is only 5000 years old really has nothing to do with Christianity; it's like believing the Earth is flat.

Btw, I have a question: Is it just the Earth you believe to be only 5000-10000 years old, or is it the entire Universe?

simon_labroue · Post by **simon_labroue** » 4 Apr 2006, 06:20

and what is the age of God

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 4 Apr 2006, 14:47

SveinR wrote:
Henkjan wrote:i'm not ignoring anyone. and i try to read as many as i can.
i just don't believe it, that's a big diffence.
But you choose to believe the Young Earth Creationists claims who systematically ignores and opposes all scientific evidence pointing towards other conclusions than their own?

You're allowed to believe what you want, but believing the Earth is only 5000 years old really has nothing to do with Christianity; it's like believing the Earth is flat.

Btw, I have a question: Is it just the Earth you believe to be only 5000-10000 years old, or is it the entire Universe?

the earth, but it doesn't matter to me how old it is.

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 4 Apr 2006, 14:48

simon_labroue wrote:and what is the age of God

i don't know, ask him

simon_labroue · Post by **simon_labroue** » 4 Apr 2006, 23:16

ok i'll do it tonight

A.K.B. · Post by **A.K.B.** » 5 Apr 2006, 10:27

I'm Christian, and proud of it.

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 5 Apr 2006, 13:23

A.K.B. wrote:I'm Christian, and proud of it.

it's nice to hear that.

simon_labroue · Post by **simon_labroue** » 5 Apr 2006, 17:58

A.K.B. wrote:I'm Christian, and proud of it.

I'm Simon, and proud of it.
(hi Chris)

teajay · Post by **teajay** » 5 Apr 2006, 18:16

simon_labroue wrote:
A.K.B. wrote:I'm Christian, and proud of it.
I'm Simon, and proud of it.
(hi Chris)

hahahaha =)

But it's okay that you're proud of your faith, what I do wonder though is if you think you're better than people who aren't christian.

simon_labroue · Post by **simon_labroue** » 5 Apr 2006, 19:12

the both options are okay. I could talk to 1000 persons about anything except their beliefs and I would not know what their beliefs are but they could be nice or bad, I could like some of 'em and dislike some without however having a hint about their religion.

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 6 Apr 2006, 15:05

tijsjoris wrote:
simon_labroue wrote:
A.K.B. wrote:I'm Christian, and proud of it.
I'm Simon, and proud of it.
(hi Chris)
hahahaha =)

But it's okay that you're proud of your faith, what I do wonder though is if you think you're better than people who aren't christian.

no, we are not a hair better then any other person. nomatter what he/she has done, everyone is the same.

simon_labroue · Post by **simon_labroue** » 6 Apr 2006, 15:49

I think it doesn't really matter on the religion, but rather on his actions. If someguy kills cats, dogs, humans, crocrodiles, I say it's just worse than eating cheeze with french fries.

teajay · Post by **teajay** » 6 Apr 2006, 21:32

Ok, I think that's all I wanted to know really.

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 10 Apr 2006, 16:25

okay.

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 11 Apr 2006, 12:47

SveinR wrote:
Henkjan wrote:i'm not ignoring anyone. and i try to read as many as i can.
i just don't believe it, that's a big diffence.
But you choose to believe the Young Earth Creationists claims who systematically ignores and opposes all scientific evidence pointing towards other conclusions than their own?

You're allowed to believe what you want, but believing the Earth is only 5000 years old really has nothing to do with Christianity; it's like believing the Earth is flat.

Btw, I have a question: Is it just the Earth you believe to be only 5000-10000 years old, or is it the entire Universe?

earth should have been created on 3th-4th day or smth...
so the universe should be 3 days older i guess

enil · Post by **enil** » 29 Dec 2006, 05:57

Henkjan wrote:just don't forget, 1000 years is 1 day for god.
and it's not god who's doing anything bad. god loves you.
it's the people that do it..
btw, it's proven that it's impossible that something starts from nothing.
and it's proven that the "big blast" is impossible.
.... that's all wrong dude.
your saying that some day there was a big explosion and somehow there is a planet that looks like it's MADE for humans to live on..
and how could it be that after milions of years someway there are humans walking on that earth? that are born from nothing? that's just impossible

ohhh will you shut the fuck up, talking about it could not happent, but fucking zeus or what his name is who apperently have perma invis and a timemashine to freeze time just pointes some spots and 'PUF' here is earth.. yhe that is more realistic.. yes yes..

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD you have been brain washed as kid ill tell you, be glad you arent from iraq, then you would have been a suicide squadder instead

enil · Post by **enil** » 29 Dec 2006, 05:58

Henkjan wrote:no i didn't actualy mean that:P
well the bible says that in the future (wich is now) there would be alot of wars and earthquakes and stuff like that much more then befor..
how could any human predict that in the future there are more wars and earthquakes and tsunami, hunger... etc etc etc.. it was a long time ago that the bible was written.. no human could have ever known that there would be more wars and earthquakes and stuff like that..
it's written in the bible that all the things that are happening now are seposed to happen.

its a 50/50 if you are right or wrong.. we are 6 billion ppl on the earth, yes i think one could have guesssed right.. ever flipped a cion?

enil · Post by **enil** » 29 Dec 2006, 06:02

Henkjan wrote:know what your saying, man. you will not be proud of it when Jezus come to earth.
i just have to say this because as a christian it's my mission to do this.
Jezus will come to earth the same way he wen't away from it.
befor that happens, all the christians will disapear from earth and will go to heaven. after that there will be a horrible time on earth.
just remember this.. when people disapear from the earth just remember what i said here. cause you will know it's the truth.
but you will still have time to turn into a christian then. but if i were you i wouldnd wait.

1: he never will
2: he never where here
3: he cant come the way he left, he fucking died on a cross and was barried in a cave. GG getting him out
4: kekeke go to heaven and miss playstation 4, bushes death and you virginity
5: pls make a point