New cheating wave

Vaitork · Post by **Vaitork** » 16 Dec 2002, 23:43

1. They didn't beat the system, Abula & company got them...

2. (Taking my own nation, Venezuela's example) If u get rid of ur president BUT u leave the rest of his group on power, u still got a shitty gov's situation on ur hands... Take EVERYONE down or the system won't EVER be cleaner than this...

3. Denzel Washington died on that movie

Got it?

(Venezuelan opinion:P)

Ramone · Post by **Ramone** » 17 Dec 2002, 00:06

CAHLAIICNES wrote: "If they can beat the system, they deserve to be free." ... That's my USA opinion.

I dont wanna belive that americans have less brain than others... but wtf is this!?

please tell me you were kidding... but I just cant see any sarcasm in it

CAHLAIICNES · Post by **CAHLAIICNES** » 17 Dec 2002, 04:40

I'm just saying is that if they cheated on like WR table 60 or something, who cares anymore? I'd say don't let them send any more WRs, but don't bother removing old ones. Who cares about what happened on WR table 60 anyways? It's just giving Abula and Pexi much more work to do over such a useless problem. My idea is just don't allow these people to send recs anymore, unless it is someone whose slate is relatively clean, like Karlis or Jokke or Zynitfox. They have no previous faults, plus they are part of the core group of people who made Elastomania what it is today, so I don't think they should be punished too harshly. Guys like mrickx, totalnewbie, Weird-AAL/EML/Nostrada or whatever should be punished harshly just because most of their accomplishments were cheated.

PS. Even though Denzel Washington died, he was still one bad-ass motha in that movie.

jcl · Post by **jcl** » 17 Dec 2002, 09:40

CAHLAIICNES wrote:Who cares about what happened on WR table 60 anyways?

I suppose the one who takes WR on table 60 because of the erased cheat-WR is pretty interested in removing the cheat WR...

At least I like to look at old tables, maybe there are others, too.

petsen · Post by **petsen** » 17 Dec 2002, 10:04

I look at the old tables too .. I would like to look at the correct old table...

Flatley · Post by **Flatley** » 17 Dec 2002, 11:10

We need Old WR tables. I'd like to see them.

Ramone · Post by **Ramone** » 17 Dec 2002, 14:28

CAHLAIICNES wrote:...unless it is someone whose slate is relatively clean, like Karlis or Jokke or Zynitfox. They have no previous faults, plus they are part of the core group of people who made Elastomania what it is today...

I dont get you... itÂ´s like saying: DonÂ´t punish ppl who made good. Like.. the president (whoever it may be) can do a few crimes... not a biggy, after all. he made this country (whatever counrty) this big of a success! And that is not acceptable, I dont say how and who should be punished (not for now anyway). And how can you say Zyntis cheat is not much...? His Flat Track wr was cheated 2 hundreds... lets say I cheated warm up 14:05... not a big deal... after all it is a relatively small cheat... huh? You canÂ´t really mean this... I remember when Jeppe beated zynti and zynti said (this is my memory, dont know his exact words): Maybe he statedited it down a few hundreds!!!!
And even if you had a point in what I pasted above (which I btw if you hadnÂ´t guessed, donÂ´t think) who is to decide what cheats are relatively small?

Old wrÂ´s should be fixed if possible, since many ppl (including me) likes to check them. And since Abula will soon get a program that fixes this pretty easy... why shouldnt we remove them? Cause they are broken now? Only reason not to remove them should be: ItÂ´s just a game, donÂ´t take it so seriously. But cheaters that made everything for a record (even wr) really took it seriously and many others to... you may think it is stupid to think so high of this game... but the fact remains, ppl do. So removing those are good.

Post by **SveinR** » 17 Dec 2002, 15:01

ramone wrote:
CAHLAIICNES wrote: "If they can beat the system, they deserve to be free." ... That's my USA opinion.
I dont wanna belive that americans have less brain than others... but wtf is this!?

Actually 11% of Americans between the ages 18-24 cannot point out their own country on a world map. And 39% cannot point out the Pacific Ocean on a world map

CAHLAIICNES · Post by **CAHLAIICNES** » 17 Dec 2002, 20:19

hahah most americans are really retarded and couldn't point themselves out on a map. what im saying is some people have cheated soooo many times and have made such an impact on how the WR tables look and all that they should no doubt be punished. as for other people that have done it maybe once and it wasnt that big a deal anyways, then who cares. for the people who actually like to look at the old WR tables, i look at them too occasionally, but only like tables 1 and 2. to me i dont really care what happened in the middle of the pack. and for the people who say that id care if my record got broken by a cheat, it would be different if the cheated record hadn't been broken for some time. if i had a record and it was broken by a cheater, but then was broken fairly on the next table, then who cares? it was going to be broken one way or another. i have been playing across since 1999 and elma since it came out (granted im still no good with a TT in the 46s hahah) and i really couldnt care less who has what record when? lets say i had a record from tables 45-60 then on 61 someone broke my record with a cheat, and then someone broke it legitamately on 62. what does that get me now? so my record stood for one more table, who gives a shiat? i just like to see the crazy new styles, like when the new tricks abound style emerged with the alovolt i nearly shitted myself.

welp, peace out for now

Vaitork · Post by **Vaitork** » 17 Dec 2002, 20:37

CAHLAIICNES wrote:lets say i had a record from tables 45-60 then on 61 someone broke my record with a cheat, and then someone broke it legitamately on 62. what does that get me now? so my record stood for one more table, who gives a shiat?

Look, I don't really know these guys who break world records all the time (i'm NOT and WON'T be one of them)... but i'm just gonna tell u that IF u wanna break them, you got to study the levels, the strategies, the styles (OLD probably-useful styles) because the COMPETITION requires it! I know that breaking WR is not a piece of cake... and i really doubt that u would stay in that stance of "who gives a shiat"... nooooo mr... you would suffer because u played and played and played until getting the WR. SO if someone (cheating or not) brakes ur WR...

and u will play double...

I would say some other stuff but i'm lazy

so see ya...

onlainari · Post by **onlainari** » 18 Dec 2002, 04:01

there's also sumthng else. Some WR tables become false ,if the old cheated WR's are removed. For instance.. when dmd came up with a new uphill battle style,he drove a WR,but before the table was updated Nostrada beat him. So...there should have been dmd's name on uphill battle. Now there's Nostrada's name,but if the cheated wr's will be erased,it's mengerle's name that comes on that list. Yeh I know,Abula can check his e-mails if dmd also sent his wr that was beaten before the new update,but there are cases ,where someone's new WR was beaten so quickly that he even didn't send it in ,because he knew someone just broke his WR ....etc...

list won't be perfect. I wouldn't care to watch those new old-lists,because they might be false,not interesting at all.

darm · Post by **darm** » 18 Dec 2002, 07:30

hmm..
i didnt beat mengerle wr :) check my times onla

Ky.Jelly · Post by **Ky.Jelly** » 18 Dec 2002, 09:27

r there any wr tables that havnt been cheated at some point caus it soundz like that is the shorter list

zworqy · Post by **zworqy** » 18 Dec 2002, 12:34

CAHLAIICNES wrote:My idea is just don't allow these people to send recs anymore, unless it is someone whose slate is relatively clean, like Karlis or Jokke or Zynitfox. They have no previous faults, plus they are part of the core group of people who made Elastomania what it is today, so I don't think they should be punished too harshly. Guys like mrickx, totalnewbie, Weird-AAL/EML/Nostrada or whatever should be punished harshly just because most of their accomplishments were cheated.

All players who cheats should be equally punished by removing the cheated WRs, nothing else. Remember, to cheat a player needs to be able to drive just 0.01 - 0.05 worse than the current WR. (Actually, most players probably cheat in pure frustration of not making the final hundreds)
So, cheaters are actually very skilled Elma players (at least on certain levels) and should be allowed to send real WRs if they get any. (But of course replays from them should be checked EXTREMELY thorough)

petsen · Post by **petsen** » 18 Dec 2002, 17:56

zworqy is right, they are skilled kuskis and should be allowed to send in real wr. dont ban them or take away all their wr's....

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 18 Dec 2002, 19:05

bad news.....somebody made undetectable cheat

Karlis · Post by **Karlis** » 18 Dec 2002, 19:28

omg, so I will loose my freefall wr soon?

Post by **Abula** » 18 Dec 2002, 19:37

mrickx didn't drive 0,01-0,05 worse times himself, he used other people's replays.

milagros: making hysteria is always cool, isn't it?

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 18 Dec 2002, 19:46

Abula wrote:mrickx didn't drive 0,01-0,05 worse times himself, he used other people's replays.

milagros: making hysteria is always cool, isn't it?

i know pipe was cloud's

Antz · Post by **Antz** » 18 Dec 2002, 21:20

milagros wrote:bad news.....somebody made undetectable cheat

how the hell do u know if it's undetevtable

?

Post by **SveinR** » 18 Dec 2002, 22:54

Obviously he made it himself...

onlainari · Post by **onlainari** » 19 Dec 2002, 03:10

darm; yeh,I wasn't sure.. but anyway that stuff has happened

Post by **Abula** » 19 Dec 2002, 12:56

People who "cheated" in Kinglist won't be added to Blacklist. Actually they didn't cheat (in a meaning how we use this word) anything but lied. They didn't edit .lev files, nor .rec files, just told wrong time. They are liars (BarTek, Uube, Miguel, zo3, paul, freak), but no cheaters. The record times will be fixed. I think only MCHM013 record will change the holder. Marcuz had 8,67 before freak.

Are · Post by **Are** » 19 Dec 2002, 14:12

I was just wondering, seeing all those 0.01-0.02 cheats (especially in cases were it wouldn't matter to have 0.01 better time)..

How extensively have the program(s) been tested? On how many different computers and setups? I know that elma has different "quirks" on different computers, as for instance on mine it always saves the time 0.01-0.03 worse than what the time showed when I finished the lev. It wouldn't be surprising to me if the opposite happened for others.

petsen · Post by **petsen** » 19 Dec 2002, 14:25

Are's got a point...
I hope ur sure that the 0.01 cheat times are really cheats and not just elmatic errors.... that could be bad

... But on the other hand, ppl would cry out loud if they didnt cheat and the programs said so anyway....

MagnusB · Post by **MagnusB** » 19 Dec 2002, 14:56

It's the last glimpse you get of the clock when you finish that's wrong, not the other way around. I assume it's that way at least.

Post by **Abula** » 19 Dec 2002, 15:17

Almost all mistakes and cheats, which the program found, are admitted by the owners (Karlis, mrickx, zo3, freak, Uube, Totalnew, zyntifox etc etc). No one has denied at least. So we can say the program hasn't made any mistakes and we have checked like 4000 replays.

petsen · Post by **petsen** » 19 Dec 2002, 21:07

Ok fair enough, was just a thought....

Antz · Post by **Antz** » 19 Dec 2002, 21:14

dunno if ne1 else noticed, but this topic is by far the most popular: most posts, and most views. also this has grown extremely fast, in about three weeks! i'd say gratz to us

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 19 Dec 2002, 21:23

grats to me

Karlis · Post by **Karlis** » 19 Dec 2002, 21:26

grats to you? this topic wouldn't even exists without us, the cheaters

Antz · Post by **Antz** » 19 Dec 2002, 21:27

hmm yep i suppose it's pretty much gratz to u. programmer for the cheat-catching prog and starter of the topic. but never the less, this has been achieved through team work =)!

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 19 Dec 2002, 21:29

i got some mails from some cheaters (mrickx, samu) that wrote that i made a mistake to publish the prog (i'll think about it)
that we're living in a lie (samu said) that nobody is cheating
they said it's quite easy to make undetectable cheat and give it to abula for christmas..i know

only i rather chose the other way..but the others maybe didn't
i can have 20 wrs too
i don't even need to play it

MP · Post by MP » 19 Dec 2002, 22:41

karl :))))))

*useless comment, must write something else too*

bad cheating, ye lots of views, way to go mila...HI!1

Post by **Abula** » 20 Dec 2002, 09:41

milagros wrote:bad news.....somebody made undetectable cheat

If you cannot detect it, it doesn't mean no one can.

KD · Post by KD » 20 Dec 2002, 12:01

Ye, milagros the doomsayer

magicman · Post by **magicman** » 21 Dec 2002, 13:06

I'm 18 now ok :]

so have u checked the Wcup replays ?...

and cheating is "low low"

)))))

dz · Post by dz » 21 Dec 2002, 15:26

this is so stupid
i bet it takes months to get internals resumed
blah

oizo · Post by **oizo** » 21 Dec 2002, 15:49

this is stupid indeed as dz said.
why stop the whole internals updating ?
no point of doing that.
when doing that you kinda saying: "the cheaters beat us"
just keep updating and ban those monster cheaters and check all new replays and things will calm down. and if people uses other cheats, it will not help to stop the internals scene for all players, would it ?

Post by **Abula** » 21 Dec 2002, 15:57

Three main problems:

1) Nostrada is away
2) MGen is away
3) Me and PeXi are lazy

To put them under one problem: Christmas

Flatley · Post by **Flatley** » 21 Dec 2002, 17:50

Abula wrote:Three main problems:

1) Nostrada is away
2) MGen is away
3) Me and PeXi are lazy

To put them under one problem: Christmas

I think, the one who needs Nostrada's WR on table is not the Elma Scen (=We kuskis), it's Nostrada... if he still wants. If he comments these things, than it means, that he don't need his WRs. If he really wants to see his WRs, then he will beg for those. I say (it will be a bit routh), but ban him. He didn1t contact Us and we won't worship him. Nostrada WRs should be deleted at Christmas (except he contacts us.)

And you guys (as me too), who don't have WRs not updated because of this misery, know the most what it means to WAIT. I've been playing for more than 2 years, and I have my first WR, which is not updated for 4 weeks. OLP records have not been updated for 9 (!) weeks, because of those cheaters. grrrrr

onlainari · Post by **onlainari** » 21 Dec 2002, 18:22

yea well, hazding,call nostrada and tell him the situation? Someone who knows mgen can do the same thing. This is a kind of thing that should not be stalled like this.

Flatley · Post by **Flatley** » 21 Dec 2002, 21:33

onlainari wrote:yea well, hazding,call nostrada and tell him the situation? Someone who knows mgen can do the same thing. This is a kind of thing that should not be stalled like this.

MGen is not away... he is on Hungarian Elma Forum. I can tell him to watch this forum's topic.

Hazding was told to talk to Nostrada weeks ago. Why didn't he do it then?

RealiZer · Post by **RealiZer** » 21 Dec 2002, 21:52

Hey hey,

I guess everything i say here is said before,
but anyway i say it:

"Cheating isnt actually wrong, its just a shortcut to success"
Thoose words is actually true, but can have diffrent integrities on diffrent
games. On elastomania i think cheating is acceptable if you in "NO WAY" cheat "public". What I mean is that you can cheat for having fun but not to gain status! That is the wrong use of cheating... Cheating is there to add something "more" fun to the game.. Sometimes the cheating is shity, but almost everytime cheating is funny. As long as the public doesnt take part or anything!

Mostly of the cheating here is improving times, i dont actually would have called that cheating because its lying and faking. And the way i mean it cheating is about changing the original. On elma WR list which we have seen most of the peoples have been lying and faking best times to gain status and points! DAMN THEM! And one more question for thoose,

Why cheat? If i had theese great abilities i would have been greatful being on the top10 in the world.. But no way they have to be the nr. 1. !

That my opinion.

-RealiZer

cyre · Post by **cyre** » 21 Dec 2002, 22:02

I wonder why Nostrada's presence is needed. He has cheated and broken the rules so many times that removing his wrs (and other stuff on moposite) is not a hard desicion to make, with or without hearing him first. Later on you can think about wether to ban him or not (i think removing all his wrs should be enough, if he wants to start playing all over again, it's ok).

And forget that he's a good kuski, that really doesn't matter now.

Also the first-time cheaters should have their cheated wrs removed, and if they do it again, then all their wrs and stuff on moposite. After all there should be punishments, otherwise ppl could send, for example 10 cheated wrs and hope that some of them would pass the inspection, without needing to fear about the consequences of getting caught.

RealiZer · Post by **RealiZer** » 21 Dec 2002, 22:18

Gunos:
I dont think it is right to take away all their old and correct WR'z!
BTW since it now is very hard to cheat that way. I dont see the problem anymore... Abula wil ofcourse have checked all the new WR's before he publish them... Right?

And the old WR's should stand!

The best punishment is just ban him from moposite. The WR table aint OFFICIALLY moposites.. But since its the Moposite Cew updating he wont get any NEW WR's! Ofcourse it is hard to fint out if there is the same guy on another nick.. But thats what weve got spies for right?!

But anyway this is a discussion on meanings....(Taste)

"The taste is like the ass, two parts!"

-RealiZer (rz)

Flatley · Post by **Flatley** » 22 Dec 2002, 21:06

Every WR made by Cheaters are cheated Wrs, even if they were not made by cheat. So I think, every WR from cheaters should be deleted. And if he can run the Wr again (without cheating), then he deserves to be on the list.

Antz · Post by **Antz** » 22 Dec 2002, 21:12

imo this talk could stop now. every idea has been gone through three times and it's getting kinda boring.. btw 300th post in this topic!

Karlis · Post by **Karlis** » 22 Dec 2002, 21:24

Flatley wrote:Every WR made by Cheaters are cheated Wrs, even if they were not made by cheat. So I think, every WR from cheaters should be deleted. And if he can run the Wr again (without cheating), then he deserves to be on the list.

I don't understand you........why remove cheaters' WRs that are not cheated, I mean....those are still WRs don't you think?

petsen · Post by **petsen** » 22 Dec 2002, 22:34

karlis is right ! although they may have cheated some wrs.. like karlis... their not-cheated wrs should not be removed because like I wrote earlier :

petsen wrote:
Abula wrote:Yep, it's always possible to cheat but now again it's a bit harder.

mrDJ and AAL got another opportunity but most likely they didn't learn. At least Nostrada will be banned from the Moposite forever if we can be sure he cheated. That's my opinion.
I dont think it will help to ban Nos/aal/dd again he'll just make up a new cool nick and start over...

lets figure out a proper and hard punishment for guys like him instead...

dont start banning ppl, cause the wr table would not be correct either they can still do wrs but are just not allowed to get on the wr table, i would feel funny if i made a wr in fx warmup .. lets say 14.03 and someon told me that nostrada has 14.01 without cheating but just isnt allowed to send it to the wr list, then my wr would NOT be a wr, and then its not fun anymore...

New cheating wave

hmm

.

so true