Natural Talent

[gimp]

I became somewhat disappointed the other day when i realized that many of the once new people in belma have either become as good as me or better than me despite my many years of experience over them. I believe myself to be average in this scene but amazing at the game with my random friends who have never played. I feel like I'm not getting any better, and I've felt like that for awhile, rather I'm stuck at the same level of skill regardless of how much i play. Anybody who says that dedication will get you what you want is an optimistic piece of shit liar trying to make the hopeless feel better about themselves, clearly natural given talent favors human beings in just about every sport or mental activity, dedication only gets you so far and then genetics or other factors out of your control will favor those who are simply just "luckier" to be born better at something. This is an interesting philosophical idea that i wasnt sure if i should put in the non-elma discussion section but it seems to apply to elma in one way or another so feel free to give any criticism, intellectual, stupid, or personal experience comments. the idea being that most of life is based on the luck of the draw in regard to your success and overall happiness. happiness being the supreme goal in life, right?

[abruzzi]

http://www.moposite.com/misc_text_files ... sierra.txt

[Polarix]

Just use the same skills you use in hangman, hehe

[Pab]

sry for bad eng.: All the games in our century are about competition and there are many ppl in the world =)
There is always one person that has more facilities to computer games or more time to play than you so if
you look for someone more skilled you will find at least one very easy.
In Elasto happens the same, some are born to design levels or make new skills, some to play internal or own all pipes
but it would be very boring if we all were the same, and what only cares is the time you dedicate to it.
i hope my point is clear lol

[Chris]

Damn!! I wish I was at least as average as you Gimp. I stared playing with Across then Elma at school since around 2000/1. I never played them regularly but that 13 years. Easily more than half of my life. I still can't get TT under 1 hour.

[Kiiwi]

I don't agree with gimp 100%

Someone maybe very gifted to begin with (like say Ecchi) and make seemingly impossible feats in comparison to his "level". But that talent doesn't automatically mean that u become a pro player, there are other factors to being "skilled" (by skilled i mean like Markku or Zweq skilled) , one of which is absorbing new information and taking effective use of it (like further understanding of bike behaviour in diff. situations) ofc some ppl absorb these things better then others, some have to be shown and explained the causality of different actions to understand it (and still they might have trouble making use of this information in practice!), some seem to have eye for it (i think this contributes greatly to development of skills and the rate at which it happens) . Then there is "obsession", as in researching and being so fucking stubborn that u hoyl some trick or stuff so long that gradually u come to understand what conditions have to be met in order to succeed in ur goal. So being talented too, only gets u so far, if ur not obsessed enough and/or can't learn enough new "knick knacks" u won't get skilled.

...Or maybe being talented means u have all the means above and maybe more....dunno, but one thing is sure: not dedicating makes even a potential superpro down to being only good

[culinko]

to see every pixel of the game + to know exactly what milisecond press exact keys + invent the best possible style = win elma

[NoZKeY]

to see every pixel of the game + to know exactly what milisecond press exact keys + invent the best possible style = win elma

=to be an uber pro bot like zweq 8D

[ribot]

Some people are talented in different areas, that's just how it is in a world of diversity. Someone might become really good in one year, while other take a long time to be good. What's that to whine about? So you will never become zweq, big deal. Everybody is talented in something and if you aren't you can still be happy about being who you are.

Blaming genetics is just another excuse. If you enjoy playing elma you will become better, and if you are a sour whiner you will not improve. Whether you have natural talent or not there is so much you can do both for being happier and improving in something.

Basically if you are grumpy and complain you will feel like shit, whereas if you enjoy things in your life you can be happy and then talent matters very little. If you have talent however it is a good thing to use it, because using what you have in a good way makes you feel good about yourself and your world.

[abruzzi]

Uncle Ribbon, what is my talent?

[Memphis]

cheating, but I wouldn't call it a talent. This is a funny topic because I sometimes feel like gimp as well but with more playing time. I mean it took me 3 or 4 weeks of intense holya to get both my wrs and then as soon as the pros figure out my style they take it back in probably a few hours of holya. It's funny because Ciph always said to me, if he had started when I had started he would of had an extremely low tt but because the same styles weren't out then he had to holya old styles to the extreme. It was funny to talk to him during cup events as well, he was always like if you don't stay up holyaing till 4am you won't do well on the event, and as soon as your satisfied with your time you should holya it another day because someone will have a better time garunteed.

[gimp]

Some people are talented in different areas, that's just how it is in a world of diversity. Someone might become really good in one year, while other take a long time to be good. What's that to whine about? So you will never become zweq, big deal. Everybody is talented in something and if you aren't you can still be happy about being who you are.

Blaming genetics is just another excuse. If you enjoy playing elma you will become better, and if you are a sour whiner you will not improve. Whether you have natural talent or not there is so much you can do both for being happier and improving in something.

Basically if you are grumpy and complain you will feel like shit, whereas if you enjoy things in your life you can be happy and then talent matters very little. If you have talent however it is a good thing to use it, because using what you have in a good way makes you feel good about yourself and your world.

well maybe i mislead you ribot, im really not "grumpy" about it, and i share your philosophy on not dwelling on it for the sake of happiness as well. this was more just for intellectual stimulation if anything.

[ribot]

gimp:
ok, nice to hear it

abruzzi:
if you are berh, i can tell you.

when you write you speak with gravity. most people speak like annoyed teenagers, but there are also some who speak with the innocence of a child, or the innocence of a adolescence. but you speak as if you 1) think for yourself, 2) dare to stand for your opinion, 3) have an insight in to life.

i must tell you though, if you are not berh, or at least from your activity as abruzzi here lately, that you mostly brag and put others down. if you are truly the person you claim to be, then there is no need either to brag or to put others down. of course you can challenge people and discipline them at times, but you are only allowed to do it when you are on top of the world.

berh, i was thinking to open a thread to you to talk about this, but now as you asked here it came here. i don't know if we talked in my earlier days, but the times we talked a few months ago were very great. your sense of humour and company as a chatter was delightful, and your gravity of speech was strong, which means you said valuable things that touch deeply. you also showed signs of strength. and you showed signs of weakness.

you wanted to destroy everything in the elma scene, which i didn't comment about, but i thought it was a sign of weakness. it sounds like hatred and pubic behaviour. same like the abruzzi input. however, i know that you are a good person. your input has some kind of ideology behind it i think, and i think that your purpose is something worthy, even if you have to work more on it for the outside world relative to your inside world.

so i hope you take this to your heart, because your word could be listened to and respected, as long as its purpose is not to show off but the good meaning is kept intact and focused upon. i hope i answered your question.

hugs from ribot

[insane guy]

I feel like I'm not getting any better, and I've felt like that for awhile, rather I'm stuck at the same level of skill regardless of how much i play.

just try an old level that you haven't played for years but that you hoyled back then. You will be surprised how much better you are now.

[Polarix]

Okay straight out: There is with no doubt that some have more talent than others in elma (and other stuff). Take me for instance: I suck, and will never be good, and when i have figured that i dont fucking should continue either. So doom over me.

[Lukazz]

Okay straight out: There is with no doubt that some have more talent than others in elma (and other stuff). Take me for instance: I suck, and will never be good, and when i have figured that i dont fucking should continue either. So doom over me.

lol. i remember me saying "i will never get TT under 45" some 5 years ago to sierra in IRC. just keep playing ffs.

[Bismuth]

just try an old level that you haven't played for years but that you hoyled back then. You will be surprised how much better you are now.

True thing, I can pwn my old hoyled PRs first try now, and they are from 2006-2008

[Lukazz]

i had good time yesterday trying some WCup5 levels i hoyled quite much five years ago. ;D

[Lukazz]

what I'm thinking about at the moment is the overall skill increase. i played the pipe in WCup5 for like 10 mins and got 48 apples, which would've been place 15 back in 2005. i think nowadays many more people would finish the level, and very many not so experienced players too. the 11 ppl who finished the lev (http://www.moposite.com/downloads/wcups ... p05_15.txt) were all pretty experienced and oldschool players. at the moment i feel like every nab who has been playing for a few months is almost as a good piper as I am. ;s

[abruzzi]

ye kinda similar feeling like today's "nabs" aren't so nabby

can't kinda get on with some pawq or morgan piping better than me and me being unable to do anything with it

[Lukazz]

well it's kinda hard to pipe with free rotation.

[Madness]

Hahah