Iraq vs. USA

Post by **SveinR** » 17 Feb 2003, 17:19

MopoGirl wrote:! i meant that i agree that ppl who live in USA/scandinavia/whatever just can't understand it because they think that killing an arab is like killing a bug, completely unimportant and no big dill whatsoever.

That's the most ignorant thing I've ever heard.

MopoGirl · Post by **MopoGirl** » 17 Feb 2003, 18:43

i'm not saing that all ppl who aren't arabs can't understand it, just.. most ppl. me to.

Jonas · Post by **Jonas** » 17 Feb 2003, 21:40

I hate all arabs....I hope they all will be dead soon...muhahaha...Mopogirl leave your country then itÂ´s nothing good left there so we can bomb it toooo....muhahahaha...

Hibernatus · Post by **Hibernatus** » 18 Feb 2003, 17:19

Ikop, i know, that's why i asked.
I'm glad to see so much wisdom from the israeli kuskis. Thumb up. Your government is wise too. They think they must not take part in the current discussions between the USA and Europe because it would give Saddam a "reason" to bomb you as he did in 1991 (fortunately it was not "efficient" at all)

The USA attacks Iraq but Iraq will attack neighbours

SveinR: Be honest. If we had some knowledge on mass psychology we could say it with more clever words than mopogirl's, but anyway you understand the idea. Two planes can destroy two huge towers in Iraq, you won't be as shocked as for the USA. I won't either. That's because those facts seem more "usual" there, but also and mostly because terrorism against Iraq doesn't remind us of terrorism against ourselves. I don't express it well, but i hope you'll get the idea. An american death is closer to your own death, we live with the same culture and the same problems, in general. So please be honest, there's a piece of truth in what mopogirl says. Depending on the opinions it's a bigger or smaller piece

Abula: Can't you ever argue "normally" (directly on the subject)? Anyway, the comparison with the nazi is too much imho. But still, i think the propaganda is much too important in the USA. Have you seen the anti-french campain? In the TV news you can see a "journalist" saying we forgot the American who died for us in WW2. What kind of information is that? Instead of saying france disagrees and thinks we need more proofs before making a war, they directly say france hates the USA. Immature and dangerous behaviour. It will be a punishment for us economically. BTW, you can now give a new status: "Cheese eating surrender monkey". That how we're called in "serious" american press. I find it better than "Le pilote".

Bye

/edit: added an answer to SveinR.
Oh, and i want to ask why, if the American want to help the Iraqi (sorry i wrote Irakian before), why don't they end the embargo?

Juk · Post by **Juk** » 18 Feb 2003, 19:02

Anyway, the comparison with the nazi is too much imho

yes, but dont forget that many americans use the same comparison.

btw did bush actually say something like thÃ¡t, or was it somebody else?

jw · Post by jw » 19 Feb 2003, 02:17

Abula wrote:
Juk wrote:Bush and his spindoctors (dansih word for people who write what he says ) want to talk to peoples felings so people forget to think , an idea which was orginally invented by the nazis (i think) .
Bad argument.

You're referring to the nazis to get other people thinking: Nazis are bad == everything which is invented by nazis is bad == nazis invented this idea == the idea is bad

The mistake is that most likely not everything invented by nazis is bad. People have such strong feeligs about nazis that they always think automatically that all things they did are bad.

Dear Yuk,
I think Abula is right. The Nazi's gave us the Volkswagen Kever.
And we, the Dutch, invented the concentratiekampen (=concentrationcamps). And you think all things we invented are bad, like coffeeshops and dikes?

jw · Post by jw » 19 Feb 2003, 02:24

Juk wrote:
Anyway, the comparison with the nazi is too much imho
yes, but dont forget that many americans use the same comparison.

btw did bush actually say something like thÃ¡t, or was it somebody else?

Hi, now i'am attacking you for the second time, sorry for that.
But we don't have to make the same mistakes, the americans make...
They act because of they are frightened and than they think they can frighten others, because they didn't start, did they? Little bit childish.

jw · Post by jw » 19 Feb 2003, 02:43

devin wrote: but before long, Hitler was in absolute power and killing A LOT of jews. Before you know it, Iraq too will have the power to kill millions and it will already be too late before it starts

i dont know, you decide

No one stopped the americans from killing the native americans ...
Not that the dutch are great, we were the last ones to set our slaves free...
Wasn't the american army driving "Indian" motorcycles in 1942 and when they wanted to free europe and the jews they changed to Harley "David"sons? I don't know this for sure, but i thought so. Looks a littlebit like an image-upgrate.

And why we are blaming the us, i think lots of people outside the us thinks the american goverment is hypocrite* and the power of the us is frightening them/us.

*) Like they sued the South-African goverment when they want a law to make anti-aids-medicines without paying a lot to big pharmacy-companies.
But after 9-11 the American goverment wants to make anti-miltvuur-medicinaion without to pay a lot to (i thought german) pharmacy-companies.
(Just an example)

but all americans i know in person, or i met on my hollidays (never been in the us) are/ were nice people, i am just afraid of the things coming...

Don't triple post, include everything you want to say in one post- MagnusB

Juk · Post by **Juk** » 19 Feb 2003, 06:30

so jw, u think that talking to peoples feelings instead of using arguments is good becuase the nazis also inventet the wolksvagen? dont u guys get it? its not a good idea to talk to peoples feelings because people forget to think then. i dont actually say that its a bad idea because the nazis did the same thing. i just wanted people to understand how easy it is to convince people wihtout using atually arguments just as the nazis did. Maybe i should just have said that its not good to argue with the hearth instead of the brains cause then people forget to think. ofcourse abula is right that not anything the nazis invented was wrong, i agree that. still the way they have convinced people to make war and stuff is very wrong.

Hi, now i'am attacking you for the second time, sorry for that.
But we don't have to make the same mistakes, the americans make...
They act because of they are frightened and than they think they can frighten others, because they didn't start, did they? Little bit childish.

the american medias are not frighten.they just want to make money out of this situation. they plan every thing they say very carefully. but u are right, i shouldent do it myself, i am sorry. i just wanted to remind people about how easy it is to get power and belive without using real arguments.
just wanted to

Ikop · Post by **Ikop** » 19 Feb 2003, 12:19

juk, or anyone could you say somthing that te nazis invented and it's wasn't "wrong"?
and what do you mean by saing "wrong"?

Juk · Post by **Juk** » 19 Feb 2003, 13:51

alot of reseach the nazis did was based on good ideas.

when i say wrong, i mean that its stupid not to base a war on logically arguments. if war not is based on logically arguments there is simply no reason to start it.

eL · Post by eL » 19 Feb 2003, 18:40

if US wants to remove a REAL threat, not some poor arabic country, they should concentrate on North Korea nuclear weapon program. And their antiterrorism propaganda is simply antiarabic - look: i'm at emirates (UAE) at the moment, don't ask why. It is the country with one of the most small number of crimes in the world (haha, check that in US), but it really SUFFERED because of all that "arabic terrorism". Tourism just went down to the rock bottom (AFAIK). Fuck the US politics on arabic countries. They are no threat comparing to US with their:
* nuclear weapons
* chemical weapons
* bio-weapons
PS - and don't tell me that the moral of Americans won't let US govt. to fuck all countries in the world with all these "cannonballs"...

eL · Post by eL » 19 Feb 2003, 18:48

on nazi topic: saying germans started the WWII is wrong. The fascists started the WWII which has nothing to today's germans

Ikop · Post by **Ikop** » 19 Feb 2003, 21:53

eL
I think you forgot what hapened on 1 september 1939.

1 september 1939 german army invade to poland.
they were germany soldiers,
you can call them nazis or fascists or what ever you want...

dumdrog · Post by **dumdrog** » 19 Feb 2003, 23:55

Ikop wrote:eL
I think you forgot what hapened on 1 september 1939.

1 september 1939 german army invade to poland.
they were germany soldiers,
you can call them nazis or fascists or what ever you want...

the germans had lost a world war, been forced both to pay enormus amounts of money to among others france and to take the whole blame for staring ww1... so they were pretty pissed. they wanted someone to blame... and there were the nazis who had a great idea to make germany rich again... and people tough o good someone who can straighten this mess out... and not all who fought for germany were nazis...

damn if everyone should understand everything I'm trying to say it would take at least two weeks of history lessons and explaining and I'm tired

ps. hib please don't end your part in this conversation your post are some of the best (and half of the posts =) )

bob · Post by **bob** » 20 Feb 2003, 07:37

i dont know much about what is happening....

but ive seen the norht koreans marching...all the same height, same steps, look the same etc and it scares the shit outta me....

they can reach where i live with a nuclear bomb...

i live in aus....

now what has aus got to protect us from tis happening....

these asians have already tried to bomb darwin (place in aus) in the past

Ky.Jelly · Post by **Ky.Jelly** » 20 Feb 2003, 08:39

bob wrote:these asians have already tried to bomb darwin (place in aus) in the past

nah, they where different asians

Bonobo · Post by **Bonobo** » 20 Feb 2003, 12:25

America are the ones who got Saddam there, as well as bin Laden.
Some people says: The ones who're happy prefere peace. America aren't happy enough, they want to have all money in the world, that makes them happy.

Ikop · Post by **Ikop** » 20 Feb 2003, 12:35

dumdrog what is the conection between our posts?
you are trying to exlpain why the nazis came to power in germany.

i just wrote a well known fact
germany started world war 2

Juk · Post by **Juk** » 20 Feb 2003, 15:25

germany started world war 2

who have most responsebility for ww2 ? was it the people who lived in germany or was it the people who was convinced by the nazis or was it only the nazis?

i personly belive that every other country in the world could have been convinced by the nazis, if they had been in the same situatuion as the germans where. I dont think that the fact that some of the only people who was convinced was the people living germany have something to do with their location. i think it was becuse the nazis helped people to get work and because hitler managed to build up a hate against the jews.
when you involve feelings in polictics its easy to make people forget what they are doing. i agree that it was more the nazis or facists than it was the germans that started the war. there was ofcourse normal germans soliders but they where manipulated. they was manipulated becuase they allowed their feelings to decide, instead of their minds. lets not listen to our feelings today.

btw, reminding german people of the ww2 in order to make fun of them and make people belive in the american war is kind of childish after mine openion

eL · Post by eL » 20 Feb 2003, 15:44

and on CNN position on France:
- Viewer comments: "Chirac is naive and idiotic blah-blah-blah
- Viewer letters: "French are stupid cowards which "don't go to war without accordion"
- CNN: "Americans helped France during WWII (then the american graveyard in France is shown

First: Isn't Bush idiotic and naive?
Second: Why don't the read letters with something like: Americans don't go to war without contraceptives because they fear having a baby from one of those prostitutes they fuck?
Third: didn't Russians save Europe from Nazis?..

DrPepper · Post by **DrPepper** » 20 Feb 2003, 21:26

I once saw this wonderful (irony) commercial for America, that were broadcast in America, for Americans. Here goes:
"We're Americans, we're proud strong, gods selected etc. etc. we don't need anyone to think for us, we think for ourselves. Ha! I almost luaghed myself to death. It's the ultimate summary of American rule. Almost as funny as the presidental elections (if you didn't know; the one who pays the most, put most $ in his election campaign becomes the president. It doesn't matter if he's stupid to the bone; he's rich)
Pro- or anti- America, definetely anti.

jw · Post by jw » 21 Feb 2003, 01:04

Does one of you some of these catoons?

Popeye The Sailor - You're a Sap, Mr. Jap (1942)
Donald Duck - Der Fuhrer's Face (1943)
Donald Duck - The Spirit Of '43 (1943)
Donald Duck - Commando Duck (1944)
Daffy Duck - Daffy The Commando (1943)
Bugs Bunny - Nips the Nips (1944)
Bugs Bunny - The Bugs Bunny Bond Rally (1942)
Warner Bros. - The Ducktators (1942)
Walt Disney - The Story of one of Hitler's Children (194?)
MGM - Blitz Wolf (1942)

They are all anti-nazi and anti-japs propaganda from the usa to make the people think they need a war against japan and germany. Nothing about jews, just pearl harbor and than they react. Because if the Russians would free europe before they did there would be communist everywhere. I think the y hate them even more thana nazi's that time

By the way, how many russian soldiers died in WWII? (10.000.000 or something, i don't know but it must have been alot more than americans.)

Ky.Jelly · Post by **Ky.Jelly** » 21 Feb 2003, 01:47

DrPepper wrote:Almost as funny as the presidental elections (if you didn't know; the one who pays the most, put most $ in his election campaign becomes the president. It doesn't matter if he's stupid to the bone; he's rich)
.

which was proven at the last election

KD · Post by KD » 21 Feb 2003, 12:48

There were many victims from Russia in WWII, even if we don't count in the civil population's starving, and those who were executed by Stalin.

Ikop · Post by **Ikop** » 21 Feb 2003, 18:35

jw

here are facts from the history book
those numbers are about the losses of each big country in world war 2
civi people and soldiers

ussr- 17,500,000
germany- 5,600,000
japan- 2,200,000
france- 592,000
usa- 405,000
britain 366,000
italy 286,000

jw · Post by jw » 22 Feb 2003, 13:05

So for every single american victim there were 43 russian victims...

dumdrog · Post by **dumdrog** » 23 Feb 2003, 00:25

Juk wrote:
germany started world war 2
who have most responsebility for ww2 ? was it the people who lived in germany or was it the people who was convinced by the nazis or was it only the nazis?

i personly belive that every other country in the world could have been convinced by the nazis, if they had been in the same situatuion as the germans where. I dont think that the fact that some of the only people who was convinced was the people living germany have something to do with their location. i think it was becuse the nazis helped people to get work and because hitler managed to build up a hate against the jews.
when you involve feelings in polictics its easy to make people forget what they are doing. i agree that it was more the nazis or facists than it was the germans that started the war. there was ofcourse normal germans soliders but they where manipulated. they was manipulated becuase they allowed their feelings to decide, instead of their minds. lets not listen to our feelings today.

btw, reminding german people of the ww2 in order to make fun of them and make people belive in the american war is kind of childish after mine openion

thanks juk
this was exactly what i was trying to say... but i was tired and i didn't how to express it in english

DacBitch · Post by **DacBitch** » 24 Feb 2003, 09:31

KD wrote:You all ppl take it too seriously in my opinion. There were wars, and there will be wars until human is human, that's it.

whoa, what bullshit!

bob says "they can reach where i live with a nuclear bomb... i live in aus....", well i say that in a short while every country will be within reach, and if someone drops a nuclear bomb somewhere, we will all see planes pooping bombs on us, and we'll all be fucked big time. So don't think that only you Aussies are screwed (you are safer than most of other countries, now), see in Europe it's even funnier, 1 bomb could wipe out dozens of nations...

and some wise thoughts for the end:

collin powell is an asshole

george bush ----||----

america has fought more wars than any other country, at least since ww2

i don't hate americans, i hate stupid americans

DacBitch · Post by **DacBitch** » 24 Feb 2003, 09:40

why has this topic been moved from "Non-elma-related" to "General". Is there a secret connection between elma and wars that i don't know of?

Flatley · Post by **Flatley** » 24 Feb 2003, 10:45

USA wants oil that's all. So there'll be a war, and it might be bigger than any war before. We will all die.

Post by **SveinR** » 24 Feb 2003, 12:08

DacBitch wrote:why has this topic been moved from "Non-elma-related" to "General". Is there a secret connection between elma and wars that i don't know of?

Actually it's vice versa

KD · Post by KD » 24 Feb 2003, 15:04

Flat: this seems a little bit pessimist i think. And american ppl are quite different from us, so i think they will fight for "revenge" too. They are very nationalists.

Flatley · Post by **Flatley** » 25 Feb 2003, 11:18

KD wrote:Flat: this seems a little bit pessimist i think. And american ppl are quite different from us, so i think they will fight for "revenge" too. They are very nationalists.

Of course, i know. But I there's a little chance... but I think it won't happen (it=th big big war).

Juk · Post by **Juk** » 25 Feb 2003, 15:06

he, there will proberly not be any world wars ,but maybe some more terror. if the war comes there terrrorists will get alot of support

DrPepper · Post by **DrPepper** » 25 Feb 2003, 23:54

"There's only one war to end all wars" when was that?FWW?Don't remember
But it is true, because, the thing it is still going on, and it will not end until 99% of mankind is destroyed(the stupid part). Sad, right?

chux · Post by **chux** » 26 Feb 2003, 01:36

Yep, we're all gonna die, it's the one thing in life you cant stop, shame it might be so soon, and not naturally...
So, everyone, HAVE FUN WHILE YOU CAN!!!

KD · Post by KD » 26 Feb 2003, 15:03

Einstein said somewhere, sorry if i'm not proper: "I don't know what weapons will be used in WW3 but i know sticks and stones will be used in WW4..." or something like that.

Slender Belly · Post by **Slender Belly** » 3 Mar 2003, 14:34

I think Iraq needs to be bombed so hard the they sink into the sea and blow out of the other side of the world, anyone want to go to KFC for some Mashies?

Ky.Jelly · Post by **Ky.Jelly** » 3 Mar 2003, 23:08

Hogans Heros was the best war time tv show, only rival would be Dads Army,

on topic - why dont all countries get rid of there big weapons at the same time, then now onw can say 'heah but hes not, or why should i"

Juk · Post by **Juk** » 4 Mar 2003, 11:43

I think Iraq needs to be bombed so hard the they sink into the sea

why?

zworqy · Post by **zworqy** » 4 Mar 2003, 12:16

My thoughts:

1. Germans didn't start WW2. Hitler did.

2. Why can U.S.A. have nukes and Iraq not?

3. If Iraq had any nukes, they would have been found a long time ago.

4. If Bush bombs Iraq, he's sure to "accidentally" hit more than nuke factorys...

5. If Bush thinks Saddam Hussein has nukes, isn't he afraid that Saddam will nuke Washington (or whatever in U.S.A.) if he (Bush) attacks Iraq?

Juk · Post by **Juk** » 4 Mar 2003, 18:39

Why can U.S.A. have nukes and Iraq not?

i guess iraq cant have weapon because they use them to ugly things.

If Bush thinks Saddam Hussein has nukes, isn't he afraid that Saddam will nuke Washington (or whatever in U.S.A.) if he (Bush) attacks Iraq?

well they are probely out of range (if he have any weapons), but anyway its also about that he maybe can begin to produce weapons.

Post by **SveinR** » 4 Mar 2003, 20:47

Juk wrote:
Why can U.S.A. have nukes and Iraq not?
i guess iraq cant have weapon because they use them to ugly things.

Well...the USA is the only nation that has used nukes for war purposes

Juk · Post by **Juk** » 4 Mar 2003, 23:24

war can sometimes be "good", or atleast bether than something else.

anyway with the amount of nuclearbombs usa have i dont think they all could be used for something good, atleast not here on earth

Ky.Jelly · Post by **Ky.Jelly** » 5 Mar 2003, 23:27

KD wrote:Einstein said somewhere, sorry if i'm not proper: "I don't know what weapons will be used in WW3 but i know sticks and stones will be used in WW4..." or something like that.

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." -- Albert Einstein

zworqy · Post by **zworqy** » 17 Mar 2003, 14:20

If you were the president of Conutry X, and som came and said they were going to inspect every secret weapons factory you had and demanded that you destroy all weapons of mass destruction that they might or might not find, wouldn't YOU refuse too, just like Saddam? Woulnd't you try to hide some of the good stuff?

Post by **SveinR** » 17 Mar 2003, 16:32

The problem is that it's a UN resolution, not just someone saying they will "search and destroy".

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 17 Mar 2003, 19:01

btw. we have to do some prog at school in Intouch (some stupid prog) for simulating some continous processes and i've chosen the controller for iraq's artillery for shooting at USA's apaches
you know...cool desert with cool sun with cool iraq artillery and with damn fucking usa's apaches (and cool explosions)
some alarms,tables....

..maybe someone has some cool idea...
maybe i'll put some picture of it afterall:D

Ky.Jelly · Post by **Ky.Jelly** » 18 Mar 2003, 09:33

drop donuts not bombs
feed the peple dont kill them

Iraq vs. USA

I THINK WE SHOULD GO TO WAR!