EOL mopobattles

zebra · Post by **zebra** » 1 Feb 2012, 23:17

I'm starting to arrange mopobattles again after nearly 5 years break. The system will be a little different (EOL) compared to the old system (battlebot+IRC), but the reason is still the same: to collect the best battle levels and best players together!

I haven't been playing EOL much lately. The main reason is those crappy uphill battles etc. I don't find it funny to struggle in uphills or play battles which battle time clearly exceed the time used to design them. They might be funny but usually they aren't. I'm not saying that all battles are crap but I think that the quality can be enhanced significantly. That's what we want to do here: create beautiful and sensible battle levels so that people can actually enjoy them and drive amazing times in them.

And for level designers this means a new possibility too. If you don't have motivation to make a levelpack but you have 1 or 2 good levels ready, you wouldn't necessarily want to battle them and see that only few noobs are playing them. You can't make a cup because someone would be driving with save/load. Instead you can now adjust them for mopobattle and send them to me. See the levelmaking guidelines below.

Basically this is how the EOL mopobattles will be arranged:
- in EOL like a normal battle
- maybe once a week
- probably in the EOL primetime which is around 21 EET.

To have the oldschool feeling, we will have the following settings:
- times visible
- other players hidden
- normal battle mode (no first finishes etc)

In the old days, rec uploading was mandatory for everyone. Now I don't see it needed anymore. However, I would like to make the following rule:
- rec uploading is mandatory for top 5. Upload your rec for example to zworqy.com or send it to me: zebra@mbnet.fi

For now, we don't have any kind of statistics (I'm not going to update the old ones anymore), but Kopaka promised to make some kind of statistics in the future. When the statistics are ready, we will include afterwards all mopobattles since this first EOL mopobattle.

Compared to normal battles, mopobattles will (hopefully) have better quality and more players. It's maybe not so big difference to normal battles as it used to be, but I think there is still some extra in these mopobattles.

I will add the coming mopobattles to my site: http://koti.mbnet.fi/zebra/mopobattles/events.html
Mopobattles are announced there at least 3 days in advance
It is not updated yet, but I will update it shortly. At least you can check the old mopobattles there

Guidelines for making the levels (for designers):
- Levels have to be unpublished (don't load them to zworqy.com or other place)
- Levels have to be finishable for everyone! This means that they have to be fairly easy. The main thing should be finding the best style and executing it as fast as possible, not to try to find a way to finish.
- No pipes and no uphills.
- Levels with multiple routes are better for battle than levels with only one route. This isn't a requirement but a suggestion.
- Include grass and some pictures if possible. You can also decide to leave them out, but the reason has to be the level style, not your lazyness

People who don't like grass can always play with low detail.
- Level length around 45 seconds. Under 30 seconds is too short for a big battle and over minute starts to be a bit long unless it's very easy.
- Level filename is not important (I will rename it anyway). To level name you can write your own nick.
- send your levels to zebra@mbnet.fi with your nick.
- send only your best levels. Don't flood

- I will choose all levels (no rights to complain

)
- I will make some levels myself too.
- I would like to get levels from all the best designers

Things to find out:
- level designer can maybe spy the battle too if EOL has support for that?
- can we abort the ongoing battles? At least we should abort battles if they are queued just when the mopobattle should start.
- what to do if EOL crashes during battle? Probably we will lose that battle's results. If EOL is already down or unstable when the battle should begin, it will be postponed.
- maybe I should announce every mopobattle in mopolauta too?

Questions:
- What are the best weekdays to arrange the mopobattles? Any special suggestions? And what about different times (other than 21 EET)?
- Is once a week good or should it be twice a week or once in a month or how?
- How long mopobattles would you like to have? If I remember correctly, most of the old mopobattles were 30 minutes in length, but some longer ones were at least 45 minutes. In EOL, we could go for 60 minutes too if you want. So what is the best alternative, 30/45/60 minutes?
- Are mopobattles still needed? Thoughts? Comments?

Post by **SveinR** » 1 Feb 2012, 23:28

First of all, great that you're resurrecting this zebra!

Just an idea: In the past I believe it was such that the Mopobattles lasted "forever", by which I mean that people got points and there was some eternal, ever-changing points table. How about organizing into "seasons" instead, or in addition? Like say a season is composed of 10 Mopobattles, where the one with highest amount of points is regarded as the winner of said season, and then in the next season everyone starts at scratch again (of course we could have the eternal table alongside this). Then it would be possible to talk of Mopobattle season winners/medalists, there could be stats of the highest number of points or wins or podium finishes each season etc. At least I think this would lend an extra dimension to it which would be quite cool.

zebra · Post by **zebra** » 1 Feb 2012, 23:33

Yes, seasons are possible. There could be for example spring season 2012 and autumn season 2012. But it's mostly up to Kopaka, because all the statistics will be on EOL site in the future. I'm not interested in making the statistics anymore

Post by **SveinR** » 1 Feb 2012, 23:43

zebra wrote:- Is once a week good or should it be twice a week or once in a month or how?
- How long mopobattles would you like to have? If I remember correctly, most of the old mopobattles were 30 minutes in length, but some longer ones were at least 45 minutes. In EOL, we could go for 60 minutes too if you want. So what is the best alternative, 30/45/60 minutes?

Once a month is way too seldom. I think once a week would be good. If it's more often than that maybe each mopobattle wouldn't become as much of an "event".
Personally I dislike very long battle times, so I would certainly go for 30mins or at the most 45 mins. Having too long might detract some people from participating as well.

Lousku · Post by **Lousku** » 1 Feb 2012, 23:53

Sounds great, but...

zebra wrote:I haven't been playing EOL much lately. The main reason is those crappy uphill battles etc.

...

- probably in the EOL primetime which is around 21 EET.

...

- At least we should abort battles if they are queued just when the mopobattle should start.

That bit is a tad arrogant. First off, uphills and other crap are very rare these days. Most battle levels have been designed with thought and time, and they're playable. Here you're implying you have superior taste in levels and should get to pick what levels are battled at primetime. No. Everything else sounds awesome, but nothing should be aborted to make way for mopobattles. That's the way it has worked with biweekly 1hTT as well, and not many have complained.

Lukazz · Post by **Lukazz** » 2 Feb 2012, 00:09

i totally agree with lousku. and the seasons-idea sounds awesome.

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 2 Feb 2012, 00:21

My agree too. Seasons is great. Once a week could be suitable I think, definitely not twice a week. No abortions of other balles, just make sure you add the mopoballe so that in can start somewhat in time. And would be great if you announce the balles in mopolauta, I don't read any other elma page. Hmm what else... yes 30-45min balle time sounds enough, 60 too much.

Lukazz · Post by **Lukazz** » 2 Feb 2012, 01:08

i think it should be around 45 minutes, since mopoballes are supposed to be something "special" and 30 mins is just normal battle time for some designers.

Orcc · Post by **Orcc** » 2 Feb 2012, 01:47

Awesome!

EOL has no support for others to spy, but I think it'd be possible if you sent the level back to the designer so he could enter it before the battle starts?

Once a week sounds good. It's probably best to change the weekday though, because some people have weekly activities for certain hours and then would miss the battle every time. Just announce in Mopolauta in advance.

Haruhi · Post by **Haruhi** » 2 Feb 2012, 03:16

Lousku wrote:Sounds great, but...
zebra wrote:I haven't been playing EOL much lately. The main reason is those crappy uphill battles etc.

...

- probably in the EOL primetime which is around 21 EET.

...

- At least we should abort battles if they are queued just when the mopobattle should start.
That bit is a tad arrogant. First off, uphills and other crap are very rare these days. Most battle levels have been designed with thought and time, and they're playable. Here you're implying you have superior taste in levels and should get to pick what levels are battled at primetime. No. Everything else sounds awesome, but nothing should be aborted to make way for mopobattles. That's the way it has worked with biweekly 1hTT as well, and not many have complained.

In past, it was always that battles waiting during mopobattle time would wait until end of mopobattle. Mopobattle is kinda more official, has a LOT more effort put into levs (95% of Levels in EOL at the moment are designed in less than half an hour, 99.99% in less than an hour... Mopobattles are usually designed in 3-4 hours or so, maybe more.) and were a bit momentous. I don't think zebra is being arrogant.

I won't defend the uphill battles thingy because i couldn't give a fuck.

--

zebr: I'm happy to do statistics if want, i'll be doing it for the other two similar old contests coming back soon (*hint hint*) so it wouldn't be too much of a hassle. I'll spend some time making you some levels too.

zebra · Post by **zebra** » 2 Feb 2012, 06:32

Haruhi wrote:
Lousku wrote:Sounds great, but...
zebra wrote:I haven't been playing EOL much lately. The main reason is those crappy uphill battles etc.

...

- probably in the EOL primetime which is around 21 EET.

...

- At least we should abort battles if they are queued just when the mopobattle should start.
That bit is a tad arrogant. First off, uphills and other crap are very rare these days. Most battle levels have been designed with thought and time, and they're playable. Here you're implying you have superior taste in levels and should get to pick what levels are battled at primetime. No. Everything else sounds awesome, but nothing should be aborted to make way for mopobattles. That's the way it has worked with biweekly 1hTT as well, and not many have complained.
In past, it was always that battles waiting during mopobattle time would wait until end of mopobattle. Mopobattle is kinda more official, has a LOT more effort put into levs (95% of Levels in EOL at the moment are designed in less than half an hour, 99.99% in less than an hour... Mopobattles are usually designed in 3-4 hours or so, maybe more.) and were a bit momentous. I don't think zebra is being arrogant.

I won't defend the uphill battles thingy because i couldn't give a fuck.

--

zebr: I'm happy to do statistics if want, i'll be doing it for the other two similar old contests coming back soon (*hint hint*) so it wouldn't be too much of a hassle. I'll spend some time making you some levels too.

Yea, I didn't mean to be arrogant. But the idea of the mopobattle fades away if there is 1 hour queue and then people have to wait 1 hour for the mopobattle. There can always be that one noob who starts his 60 min uphill just before I come to EOL to see if I can already queue the mopobattle. I wouldn't like to abort the battles, rather bypass the queue. But I think EOL doesn't have such a feature (?). Like Jappe said, we could abort the battles in queue but not the ongoing battle. Maybe that's a good compromise?

According to your comments, maybe 30-45 mins is the best length. We can adjust the battle time according to the level.

Haruhi, you are free to make the statistics, but I guess it's easier for Kopaka to implement them in EOL. And I'm sorry but I forgot who you were previously (your old nick)?

Orcc wrote:Awesome!

EOL has no support for others to spy, but I think it'd be possible if you sent the level back to the designer so he could enter it before the battle starts?

Once a week sounds good. It's probably best to change the weekday though, because some people have weekly activities for certain hours and then would miss the battle every time. Just announce in Mopolauta in advance.

Too complicated if I have to rely that the designer will be there starting the mopobattle. Good idea though and it would solve the problem.

Yes I can vary the weekday. It's not possible for me either to always arrange it on a fixed weekday. And yes I can announce here in this topic.

jonsykkel · Post by **jonsykkel** » 2 Feb 2012, 07:14

zebra wrote:- No pipes and no uphills.

(

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 2 Feb 2012, 08:18

orka make levels with such restrictions.

but i guess others might want to, so best of luck to them)

Bjenn · Post by **Bjenn** » 2 Feb 2012, 11:34

Great this Zebra!
My opinions: I will make level for this. 45 mins minimum battle time, not less. Abort nab battles for MOPO levs. The designer should start the battle so he can spy, not zebra. I don't think it is possible to enter level before it starts and be able to spy, like you could do in belma.
No pipes and uphills = AWESOME I will play every mopobattle I get time for. Battle two times a week sounds good!
sensationally

zebra · Post by **zebra** » 2 Feb 2012, 12:39

Thanks Bjenn

We could do it like this: If the designer is online 30-15 mins before the mopobattle should start, I can give the level to him/her and then he/she can start it; otherwise I will start it myself.

If the designer is online and starts the battle, maybe I can play the battle too =)

anpdad · Post by **anpdad** » 2 Feb 2012, 12:52

Looking forward to mopobattles again! The quality of levs in the past was great, glad to hear zebra is organizing it again. And i agree about aborting the balles in queue. Would be good to clear the queue beforehand, so that when mopobattle is about to start, there is no ongoing 60mins battle with 45mins left.

roope · Post by **roope** » 2 Feb 2012, 14:56

I hope this works out and people will be excited and will be looking forward to mopobattles.

Anyway the one thing that caught my eye (has been mentioned already though) was the comment about uphills etc. It shows that zebra hasn't been in EOL lately, because they really are a rarity nowadays. Actually I think there's a nice and steady phase in levelmaking now. There used to be a time when there was an overload of pipes, then an overload of uphills, then an overload of TL levs (they're usually nice but still kinda similar to each other). Now nothing really stands out.

probably I will too make a few if I manage :p

totem · Post by **totem** » 2 Feb 2012, 15:25

jonharkulsykkel wrote:
zebra wrote:- No pipes and no uphills.
(

I think it means no pipe-only/uphill-only levs

and indeed such levs suck balls, so I second this decision.

zebra · Post by **zebra** » 4 Feb 2012, 16:34

Spring 2012 season will begin next wednesday 8.2.2012 at 21 EET (19 GMT). Be there

8-ball · Post by **8-ball** » 5 Feb 2012, 01:29

I might make a lev or two

Very disappointed with the players lately. I make a 30 min or so battle and people immediately complain about it being TOO LONG or something.

zebra · Post by **zebra** » 5 Feb 2012, 13:19

Yep. I see that there is a need for shorter battles, but there is also need for longer battles. I hope mopobattles can fill that need.

And we will abort the battles in queue if needed. I hope everybody understands this. It doesn't matter whose battle it is.

BlaZtek · Post by **BlaZtek** » 6 Feb 2012, 13:47

This is great news

zebra · Post by **zebra** » 6 Feb 2012, 21:55

I updated the site: http://koti.mbnet.fi/zebra/mopobattles/events.html
Remember the mopobattle on Wednesday and send me some levels! I haven't got too many yet

Madness · Post by **Madness** » 7 Feb 2012, 20:35

Awesome, I'm looking forward to this. I agree with 1 mopobattle per week and aborting anything in the way ;D As for balletime, 60 mins will never be amiss. Starting it on weekdays is not the best choice though.

Lukazz · Post by **Lukazz** » 7 Feb 2012, 20:46

weekdays work fine for me, because sometimes even I have other things to do than playing elma on a saturday evening.

Tigro · Post by **Tigro** » 7 Feb 2012, 21:44

just please no sundays.

Lousku · Post by **Lousku** » 7 Feb 2012, 22:05

Whythefak not. Sundays are pretty optimal for elma things.

Tigro · Post by **Tigro** » 7 Feb 2012, 22:09

because it doesnt suit me ofc...

abruzzi · Post by **abruzzi** » 7 Feb 2012, 22:58

omg tell Jesus that you have a very important thing to do... aaa... potatoes to slice! and you cant show up in church

maybe he will fall for this lie... or not

zebra · Post by **zebra** » 8 Feb 2012, 10:07

I will keep mopobattles on varying weekdays. This first battle is on Wednesday, next is on Monday. Some mopobattles can be on Sundays too.

Tigro · Post by **Tigro** » 8 Feb 2012, 15:38

thats ok, but PLEASE, not all on sundays.

Orcc · Post by **Orcc** » 8 Feb 2012, 17:38

A bit over two hours to go!

Madness · Post by **Madness** » 8 Feb 2012, 18:48

Ok, so you want as many people to participate as possible and you set it on weekdays when most people work... Why not Saturdays and Sundays?

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 8 Feb 2012, 18:54

I think more ppl are parteying/whatever on Saturday evening than working on Wednesday evening. But Sunday is teh ultimate availability day.

zebra · Post by **zebra** » 8 Feb 2012, 21:03

The first EOL mopobattle was played and we got 60 players which is kinda nice number and easy to remember

The battle can be seen here: http://elmaonline.net//?s=battles&b=28529
Congratulations Bjenn [EF] on winning the first EOL mopobattle!

Top 10 was:
1. Bjenn [EF] 00:45,44
2. Markku 00:47,57
3. Zweq [WNO] 00:47,61
4. GRob [ngt] 00:49,32
5. finman [NK] 00:50,67
6. Xarthok [EPO] 00:51,47
7. Ville_J 00:52,09
8. NightMar [xXx] 00:52,20
9. k0xx 00:52,43
10. LazY [TAAF] 00:52,48

I linked the replays of the kuskis who uploaded their rec to zworqy.com. Would be nice if top 5 would always upload their recs, but I can't force you.

I also took some pictures of the battle: http://koti.mbnet.fi/zebra/mopobattles/mopobattle164/
I think we had quite a nice battle. Thanks to all who played! The next mopobattle will be on Monday at 21.00 EET.

Hopefully we'll get some statistics soon (depends on Kopaka). And I need more levels. See the level making guidelines from the first post of this topic.

Tigro · Post by **Tigro** » 8 Feb 2012, 22:50

zebra wrote:And I need more levels. See the level making guidelines from the first post of this topic.

working on it

Lousku · Post by **Lousku** » 9 Feb 2012, 03:25

zebra wrote:Yea, I didn't mean to be arrogant. But the idea of the mopobattle fades away if there is 1 hour queue and then people have to wait 1 hour for the mopobattle. There can always be that one noob who starts his 60 min uphill just before I come to EOL to see if I can already queue the mopobattle. I wouldn't like to abort the battles, rather bypass the queue. But I think EOL doesn't have such a feature (?). Like Jappe said, we could abort the battles in queue but not the ongoing battle. Maybe that's a good compromise?

You haven't been active in a long time, so why would you assume 60min uphills are still happening? Shit battles are honestly really rare nowadays, but that's irrelevant anyway. The point is that we're lifting one inactive guy above the system (a perfectly fair queue) and letting him decide what levels are to be battled precisely whenever he wants. Sure, zebra, you're a tasteful designer, but so are many, many others. Let's not make exceptions.

If everyone else is fine with this shit, obviously I can't do anything about it and will kindly shut up.

zebra · Post by **zebra** » 9 Feb 2012, 06:41

Lousku wrote:
zebra wrote:Yea, I didn't mean to be arrogant. But the idea of the mopobattle fades away if there is 1 hour queue and then people have to wait 1 hour for the mopobattle. There can always be that one noob who starts his 60 min uphill just before I come to EOL to see if I can already queue the mopobattle. I wouldn't like to abort the battles, rather bypass the queue. But I think EOL doesn't have such a feature (?). Like Jappe said, we could abort the battles in queue but not the ongoing battle. Maybe that's a good compromise?
You haven't been active in a long time, so why would you assume 60min uphills are still happening? Shit battles are honestly really rare nowadays, but that's irrelevant anyway. The point is that we're lifting one inactive guy above the system (a perfectly fair queue) and letting him decide what levels are to be battled precisely whenever he wants. Sure, zebra, you're a tasteful designer, but so are many, many others. Let's not make exceptions.

If everyone else is fine with this shit, obviously I can't do anything about it and will kindly shut up.

You have a wrong point of view. It's only one battle in a week. In all other times you can have your own battles.

And everybody (you included) can make mopobattle levels. If they are good enough, they will be played in mopobattle.

At least yesterday I didn't have to abort any battles.

Lousku · Post by **Lousku** » 9 Feb 2012, 06:58

zebra wrote:You have a wrong point of view.

And you don't see at least a tiny hint of arrogance in your words?

zebra wrote:It's only one battle in a week. In all other times you can have your own battles.

Then let's give everyone a weekly "privileged" battle. Hmm?

zebra wrote:And everybody (you included) can make mopobattle levels. If they are good enough, they will be played in mopobattle.

That's exactly what's wrong with this; one person deciding what's good enough.

zebra wrote:At least yesterday I didn't have to abort any battles.

Cool!

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 9 Feb 2012, 07:00

I agree with lousku.

Lousku · Post by **Lousku** » 9 Feb 2012, 07:10

I do realise this is mostly a non-issue, but I think it's better to discuss it before someone's battle is aborted for no obvious reason and a shitstorm ensues. I'm not trying to fight. It's otherwise a very nice concept and I'll try not to sleep past the next mopobattles. =)

zebra · Post by **zebra** » 9 Feb 2012, 08:03

I realize there is a possibility that an another good battle will be delayed because of a mopobattle.

But I guess there are lots of people who don't have time to wait for a good battle all day long. They just want to come to EOL and play it.

I think we need a comment from admins like SveinR, Abula and Kopaka etc. Then we can stop arguing about this thing. The other solution is that I stop arranging mopobattles. That's totally fine. But I'm not giving up the thing that the mopobattles will be arranged at given time and that may require aborting some battles.

abruzzi · Post by **abruzzi** » 9 Feb 2012, 08:04

i have to strongly disagree with igge and lousku, dunno if your two beings had been being in the scene when the mopobattles had been conducted, but if not i want to kindly inform you that it's a community event, not a personal contest. mopobattles are like on the same level of moponess as WR Table, World Cup or Abula himself. I haven't thought for a shortest while about a tiniest bit of arrogance there, more about a mere order attempt, whereas it's kinda obvious nobody would start a battle when the mopobattle is planned, rather by an accident maybe.

secondly it's more proper to rather be infinitely grateful for zebra (the everlasting designer leader) for reviving this oldschool event, although even after 8 years i'm still too zworqy to finish teh

this shiteater

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 9 Feb 2012, 08:22

of course the idea is that mods will actively look at the queue and if anything there exceeded the mopobattle starting time, then the mods would abort, from queue only.

this "good levels" discussion however is full of shit.

thanks for great battle yesterday anyways, it was a fun experience like gaming should be and I bet it took a while to create the level

Kopaka · Post by **Kopaka** » 9 Feb 2012, 10:41

Lousku wrote:
zebra wrote:You have a wrong point of view.
And you don't see at least a tiny hint of arrogance in your words?

I think his point of saying you have a wrong point of view is that you and some others seem to not see mopobattles as something special. Of course why would you if you have never heard of or experienced them before. The point of mopobattles is getting the best players together in the same battle with a great level and having some battles that are considered more prestigious to win that a normal battle, with its own set of stats. Okay that might sound a bit arrogant that you should just comply to our "old" way of thinking about these. However the fact is that they are an old tradition (way older than EOL) and has made for some very exciting battles, including the one yesterday. I hope every one will see them like this after a while and accept their special status. I for one would do whatever I can to uphold this great competition.

In the past we had battles in #battle and mopobattles in #mopobattle so we didn't have this problem, would be nice with such possibilties in EOL of course, but we just have to make the best with what we've got, having them outside EOL is senseless for so many reasons.

Lousku wrote:
zebra wrote:And everybody (you included) can make mopobattle levels. If they are good enough, they will be played in mopobattle.
That's exactly what's wrong with this; one person deciding what's good enough.

Not like we can release all submitted levs and have a public vote on which should be used

.

Lousku · Post by **Lousku** » 9 Feb 2012, 11:04

Alright mans, thanks for explaining in length.

Kopaka wrote:Not like we can release all submitted levs and have a public vote on which should be used ;).

But we could have a vote on who filters the levels! And everyone would vote for zebra. I see. Thanks again and sorry for being whiney. =)

Bjenn · Post by **Bjenn** » 9 Feb 2012, 11:50

The level was really great. Thank you zebra. It is nice to have something to look forward to in EOL once a week.
I don't see any problem in having this, when we have 1htt on Sundays. As abruzzi said, it's not zebras contest, it's the communitys, and this is older than EOL and belma which has been brought back to life! I think it's awesome because I never played mopobattles before. 1htt for example I don't play but I never complained about it taking up normal battles time. Neither should anyone complain about this =) Perfectly reasonable event, also some kind of contest with stats and so on, which is nice since we don't have normal cups anymore.

zebra · Post by **zebra** » 9 Feb 2012, 13:10

Lousku wrote:Alright mans, thanks for explaining in length.
Kopaka wrote:Not like we can release all submitted levs and have a public vote on which should be used .
But we could have a vote on who filters the levels! And everyone would vote for zebra. I see. Thanks again and sorry for being whiney. =)

It seems that filtering the levels is now the biggest issue here. In fact, in the past I have only rejected a level if I can see directly that it doesn't fit to mopobattle. I set them quite strict rules so that I wouldn't have to reject any of them. Generally it's quite hard to say which level is better than other. Some other kuski might put them in other order. If you can think of somebody who could be arranging and selecting levels with me, just tell. I would gladly co-operate with someone or we can make a level jury which picks the levels. But so far there hasn't really been anything to choose from because I haven't received many levels yet.

Post by **SveinR** » 9 Feb 2012, 16:59

I don't have too much to add to what abruzzi and Kopaka said, with whom I wholeheartedly agree in this case. When it comes to who chooses the levs, I can't see the problem with zebra doing that by himself, as he handled that responsibility well in the past. In order to have a greater diversity of level styles and makers, people just need to submit them.

Post by **SveinR** » 11 Feb 2012, 03:57

I see no mention of points awarded. What is the point scheme for this? Similar to MasterCup 3, with 100-85-75-70-... or something else? I don't remember what it used to be like in the past.