Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
Moderator: Moporators
Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
Hello guys! My exams are coming up, so naturally everything except from studying feels like great fun at the moment. Among my procrastination activities today was to try to investigate which elma WRs are the strongest. I'm not going to bombastically say that I've managed to rank the WRs from objectively worst to best, but I made a list that hopefully will give some insights. My idea was to rank the WRs by how many % worse they are than the S/L WR. I copied the current WR table into a google sheet, and made a list based on that, so that part should be completely correct. I got the S/L WRs from the first post in this thread, and I used the best red numbers. I'm not sure if it's completely updated or not. Four of the levels didn't have S/L WRs, so I filled the WR times into those slots. It also appears to me there is a mistake on Long Haul in the first post. I suspect that zweq's S/L-time is supposed to be 28.87 and not 30.87, but maybe I'm wrong. The rest of the sheet works solely based on formulas. Note that I had to write the times in seconds only (and not the xx:xx:xx format) to make the ranking and formulas work. Labyrinth Pro and Animal Farm stick out as the levels where the WR is clearly the furthest behind the S/L-time in %-terms.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
Anyone should be able to view the sheet by following that link. If someone wants the rights to edit, I can add you, but I need your email address.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
Anyone should be able to view the sheet by following that link. If someone wants the rights to edit, I can add you, but I need your email address.
- Grace
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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
I quite like the idea, nonstop, although I'm not sure about how valid the conclusions are.
For example, the labyrinth pro SL is undoubtedly one of the absolute best SL WRs in the game (top 5 100%, and many would put it as the best SL WR). Consequently, the lab pro standard WR is last on this list, despite the fact that the WR itself is probably not the weakest WR in the game.
Further, it doesn't account for how difficult a strategy is. A difficult route is trivialised somewhat by SL, and this means that naturally, the SL and standard WRs will be further apart. See Animal Farm and Hi-Flyer for examples of this - both are considered in the 10 weakest WRs according to these stats, but in reality they are not.
SL also has access to non-viable strategies compared to standard human play, and this is an issue that plagues comparison between TAS and Standard play across all games, not just Elma. This is obvious when you look at Warm Up, Jaws, Bowling and Labyrinth Pro, all of which make use of either absurdly optimised bounces (Jaws, Bowling) that are unrealistic in real runs, or "shampooing" (WU, Lab Pro) which just isn't possible for humans
If you look at hoyla levels where the use of SL only provides the benefit of optimisation rather than enabling non-viable strategies, you then get the top 10 on this list.
I'd propose that the conclusions of your statistics are not "what are the strongest/weakest WRs" but rather along the lines of "which WRs are closer to the theoretical limit". Nonetheless, it's a cool set of statistics, and does provide some insight as you had hoped for.
For example, the labyrinth pro SL is undoubtedly one of the absolute best SL WRs in the game (top 5 100%, and many would put it as the best SL WR). Consequently, the lab pro standard WR is last on this list, despite the fact that the WR itself is probably not the weakest WR in the game.
Further, it doesn't account for how difficult a strategy is. A difficult route is trivialised somewhat by SL, and this means that naturally, the SL and standard WRs will be further apart. See Animal Farm and Hi-Flyer for examples of this - both are considered in the 10 weakest WRs according to these stats, but in reality they are not.
SL also has access to non-viable strategies compared to standard human play, and this is an issue that plagues comparison between TAS and Standard play across all games, not just Elma. This is obvious when you look at Warm Up, Jaws, Bowling and Labyrinth Pro, all of which make use of either absurdly optimised bounces (Jaws, Bowling) that are unrealistic in real runs, or "shampooing" (WU, Lab Pro) which just isn't possible for humans
If you look at hoyla levels where the use of SL only provides the benefit of optimisation rather than enabling non-viable strategies, you then get the top 10 on this list.
I'd propose that the conclusions of your statistics are not "what are the strongest/weakest WRs" but rather along the lines of "which WRs are closer to the theoretical limit". Nonetheless, it's a cool set of statistics, and does provide some insight as you had hoped for.
Cyberscore!
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Targets: 6 Legendary, 23 WC, 20 Pro, 5 Good | AvgTT: 39:59:96
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Targets: 6 Legendary, 23 WC, 20 Pro, 5 Good | AvgTT: 39:59:96
Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
Completely agree with you Grace. Especially think this is a good idea:
Another idea is to try to group levels based on S/L-style difficulty (where level length is accounted for in the grouping). Probably only someone with elite skill will be qualified to make such a grouping, and have it reflect reality.
Also would like to know if I have the right S/L-times. That table that Labs linked to looks like it's outdated to me.
For that we need someone more knowledgeable of the game than I am though.If you look at hoyla levels where the use of SL only provides the benefit of optimisation rather than enabling non-viable strategies, you then get the top 10 on this list.
Another idea is to try to group levels based on S/L-style difficulty (where level length is accounted for in the grouping). Probably only someone with elite skill will be qualified to make such a grouping, and have it reflect reality.
Also would like to know if I have the right S/L-times. That table that Labs linked to looks like it's outdated to me.
Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
15 is the strongest wr
Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
is strong
Signatür ruined by SveinR - smaller plz :*
Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
Oh dear recsource has passed away?
I'll have to work on finding the recs again
Any help appreciated
I'll have to work on finding the recs again
Any help appreciated
Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
it would be very good if you posted them)
want to see spef wrs and prs
want to see spef wrs and prs
Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
How about new EDQ video when totaltime goes u 34.30? Or maybe when all wrs from EDQ 2012 is beaten?
- Kopaka
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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
I'd say the important thing is whether it would be a significantly different video to watch than the last. Ie. is there different styles in a significant number of levels? I don't really have a good overview of that.
Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
Can't make a new one until someone beats int03 wr
Signatür ruined by SveinR - smaller plz :*
Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
Next should be at u34.
Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
Here bjen rec
- Attachments
-
- 51B4159.rec
- (35.03 KiB) Downloaded 305 times
Signatür ruined by SveinR - smaller plz :*
Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
any update on this one??
Elasto Mania - 34:21.69 | #421 - 11. April 2024
Ancient Internals
Ancient Internals
Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
well recsource is dead af and no one has provided the recs either (i might have some tho). i reccomend stats.sshoyer.net it is pretty good database of internal level replays.
Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
but no slwrrecs on stats
Elasto Mania - 34:21.69 | #421 - 11. April 2024
Ancient Internals
Ancient Internals
Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
Apparently the recsource database is salvageable and it may potentially be possible to even resurrect the old links in the future, but it's only rumours so please don't go about highlighting everyone asking about it just yet (looking at you arze )
Team TR
Multi WR in Labyrinth with GRob
Best Internal Total Times, Pipe stats & Pipe archive
World kuski map, World Cup stats
Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
Collected many missing recs, also some of the norm recs better than on topic, so can refresh ez.
http://kopasite.net/up/6z5jm1v3n441kii/ ... sedrec.zip
http://kopasite.net/up/6z5jm1v3n441kii/ ... sedrec.zip
Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
Very sik job Labs, thanks! Would be amazing if someone orkaed create a new topic to continue these updates, it was one of the most useful resources in elma imo!
Team TR
Multi WR in Labyrinth with GRob
Best Internal Total Times, Pipe stats & Pipe archive
World kuski map, World Cup stats
Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
There is no new edq atm?
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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
wow so rare mans here)
dort is playing eol?
dort is playing eol?
Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
I think the replays of sunl's first post are here: https://archive.moposite.com/replay/sav ... -04-01.zip Also found some other zip that sounds like it belongs here: https://archive.moposite.com/replay/sl_ ... 1-2018.zip
I don't have time to update any lists or something but I just happened to download the replays in 2018 just in case. Ville_J should upload the recsource replay files to some basic file directory or one big zip. And the duplicate problem can be solved by using the original replay file name + extra id if there are duplicates like "Abula01.rec", "lol.rec.1", "lol.rec.2" etc.
edit: fixed the text a bit
I don't have time to update any lists or something but I just happened to download the replays in 2018 just in case. Ville_J should upload the recsource replay files to some basic file directory or one big zip. And the duplicate problem can be solved by using the original replay file name + extra id if there are duplicates like "Abula01.rec", "lol.rec.1", "lol.rec.2" etc.
edit: fixed the text a bit
40:02,71 (152.) | WCup4: 8. | 3x WR | 3x GAA | 12x FEM | KOM | The History of Elasto Mania (1993-2018)
Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
I’m interested. I will make a new one soon. Trying to gather as many replays as I can.
If you have some, feel free to send them to me on discord.
Seize the day
Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
All rec src links no work want fix for plz watch
Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)
there's a 2.0 topic for a reason