cheat0r

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 12 Oct 2002, 19:43

what are known cheats nowadays?
nitro options, editing of replays (Samu)...anything else?

i got a little bored and i made very nice one
i wanted to spread very nice replays, but i decide not to do it (good idea)
i made 7.xx in steppes, 4.3x in ff, 34.xx in ramp with that
i believe it's undetectable with good using
i'll not use it, i'm not a cheater (i know you believe me) ...abula, wait for nice replays
next i'll work on cheatdetector...watch out cheaters

Karlis · Post by **Karlis** » 12 Oct 2002, 20:22

I'm sure you will use it after you see next wr-list

dz · Post by dz » 12 Oct 2002, 21:05

most of you have seen hibernatus's cheat replay on ramp frenzy where he drives on air, if i recall right it's made like adding extra vertex's/editing on other lev, and made the rec to play as normal ramp frenzy rec.

well imagine this:
someone "edits" warm up or any other "hoylÃ¤ level" a little, so little that it is impossible to see with human eye, but enough to make advantage. on hoylÃ¤lev like warm up or flat track, 0.01 is very much, and who can detect level which has been edited for getting 0.01s better time?

example:
like on flat track where you fall from air, edit the ground as it is just a little "higher" than it actually is, like driving in the air 0.1mm from ground. of course it helps.

i would like to hear abula/pexi comment something, do you have any method to detect this kind of cheat, something else than just looking rec 100 times ultra slow motion.

this is just quick sample what came up when i was thinking new ways to cheat, there are propably many many more even sneaky ones..

GodFather · Post by **GodFather** » 12 Oct 2002, 21:09

I wonder what's the purpose of cheating? Fame? Respect? Or is it cuz you can cheat? Some cheaters wants to show their skills to others and gain respect from other cheaters. But why is it so damn important to have every fockin WR?! I just wonder....

Antz · Post by **Antz** » 12 Oct 2002, 21:42

it's about respect and beating the "system"

kuiva · Post by **kuiva** » 12 Oct 2002, 23:37

to milagros, if u r so roxious haxor then please try to do some program or patch which would prevent or help detecting cheating...everyone would luv a guy(or girl) who would do such a thing

maybe moposite should offer a money -prize to someone who can come up with a cheat-detecting-program? i could give some money to moposite for this and i believe many others would too?...opinions?

GodFather · Post by **GodFather** » 13 Oct 2002, 09:51

That's prolly a good idea (i wouldn't give any money thou

)

-Let's keep it clean-

Post by **Abula** » 13 Oct 2002, 09:52

More methods:
- Statediting
- Save & load (not noticed ever though)

Someone might call vsync tuning as cheating, too. I think it would be possible to make Elma 1.2 which would monitor all other programs running same time or some other this kind of thing. There are lots of work for anti-cheat programs but who is willing to do that job, I don't know.

Chris Penrose · Post by **Chris Penrose** » 13 Oct 2002, 09:52

Great idea. I have no programming experience, but if I did I would definatly try and make a cheat detector. Especially if there was money involved. Try it, Milagros.

Lucian · Post by **Lucian** » 13 Oct 2002, 13:23

elma cheating? ...worth?

i think the save & load thing is already done. itâ€™s quite easy to program (max. 2 days of work) and no cheating detecting tool will get it.

also a replay editor should be already done. (the structure of the .rec files is too plain). You can get every wr without playing elma.

physics:
brakes efficiency â€“ easy to manipulate and very hard to detect.
gravity intensity â€“ also very easy to manipulate â€¦ hey, who wants a 10.xx on ff.

at least â€¦ you can improve every time with 0.02 to 0.06-7 sec. by removing the end frames from the replay file â€¦ - have a look at this replay (slow motion) - the distance between the wheel and the flower is as much higher as in normal replays - (the last 1 or 2 frames are missing)
http://www.Lucian.de/elma/01test.rec

Lucian

Karlis · Post by **Karlis** » 13 Oct 2002, 13:29

I can't see anything there, that's not a way to cheat, 100% same as mopo warm up rec, shows same time and so on

Lucian · Post by **Lucian** » 13 Oct 2002, 13:50

i know it's the same ..... but i dont want to say that the 01mopo is cheated...

Lucian

DacBitch · Post by **DacBitch** » 13 Oct 2002, 14:23

yeah, replays can easily be edited without playing a lev. And you don't even need to make any invisible vertexes whatsoever.

All you need to do is get a good rec, edit it (and watch it in elma all the time), then post it to Abula and get a WR if you did a relly nice job.

I and my friends (bigger computer nerds than me) managed to change recs back in spring of 2001. I really believe we were not the only ones who did this and that there must be someone who brought this to perfection by now.

beat the cheaters!!!

MopoGirl · Post by **MopoGirl** » 13 Oct 2002, 15:50

what's this save&load thing? save&load what?

MP · Post by MP » 13 Oct 2002, 17:14

n00bs say the darndest things

MopoGirl · Post by **MopoGirl** » 13 Oct 2002, 18:04

well excuuuuuse me!
instead of reticuling my n00bness you could.. mm... answer the question?

ribot · Post by **ribot** » 13 Oct 2002, 18:25

it means u can save a replay of a part of your run, and then continue from there (load). so u can drive first part of a level perfectly once, then save it, and u dont have to ride that part anymore.

Ramone · Post by **Ramone** » 13 Oct 2002, 19:55

ye... I caN make perfect runs with it... it is ckewl

Antz · Post by **Antz** » 14 Oct 2002, 05:38

u'd still have to succede in things like going through 29tube etc which aren't easy to accomplish even once unless ur goood

Ramone · Post by **Ramone** » 14 Oct 2002, 11:53

antz... I think youmissed the point... it is exactly in levs like Headbang.. with hard tricks.. save & load would help... you go fast as hell... towards tube.. save.. load... play until you are satisefied with tube.. then you can just concentrade on the rest... see?

jcl · Post by **jcl** » 14 Oct 2002, 12:59

hm, save&load is hard to do for ppl without decent programming skills
replay editing in professional level takes years to learn (i think)
playing with brake/gravity settings is very possible, but it's detectable (well maybe not with human eye, but with some replay checking program)

MopoGirl · Post by **MopoGirl** » 14 Oct 2002, 14:50

wow save&load sounds cool!

has there been anyone who used it on WR replay or WCup or smth?

dz · Post by dz » 14 Oct 2002, 15:09

omg u r SUCH a n00b i cant belive it ;)

MopoGirl · Post by **MopoGirl** » 14 Oct 2002, 15:49

ok stop saying that, so unoriginal! there should be a mopolauta rule against writing msgs like "oh you are a n00b bla bla"

onlainari · Post by **onlainari** » 14 Oct 2002, 15:50

ronimox: only DarMoeD that I know of. Not other players

MopoGirl · Post by **MopoGirl** » 14 Oct 2002, 20:09

DarMoeD has cheated?

jcl · Post by **jcl** » 14 Oct 2002, 21:05

RoniMox, you are not just a n00b, but seems you are not familiar with basic elma gossip

DarMoeD is charged with cheating by some, but nothing is proven yet

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 14 Oct 2002, 21:07

Karlis wrote:I'm sure you will use it after you see next wr-list

i don't care
...or i can send my cheated insane 4.33 replay:)
but probably pexi will otice something

and i don't want to be in the blacklist, or do i?
...btw. now i know how to edit exactly rec file...now i can delete frames to do 12.23:)
..btw2. i have seen a few days ago 12.15 replay where the kuski missed apple in 1 mm
i want to have that comp, i loose in first to volts more than 0.1s

chux · Post by **chux** » 16 Oct 2002, 18:45

how many times Ive wanted a s+l prog...think of the possibilities! Ah well!

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 26 Oct 2002, 13:11

i made one very nice new cheat0r - steppes 1.7x..can't be detected

and also i've found one way to detect exact time
i don't know whether it works always.. don't have time to test it
i works like...you must edit internal level and add an apple on the same place as flower
i tested it with sprocket's site's replays on warmup
it looks it works
you must take a look whether the apple dissappears at the end of the replay
if you look at ciph's 14.23 - if the replay ends 14.22 the apple is still there, if 14.23 apple dissappers
somebody can test it

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 26 Oct 2002, 15:28

i tested that
..when you have exact time the apple is sometimes there sometimes not
so it seems it works

it is able also to detect whether you hit the killer
i tested moses's enigma where everybody thought he hit that
so he didn't:)
i also tested former 'cheated' wr of eml (20.80)
he didn't hit the killers neither
so he deserved to be in the history of wrs
probably he had switched inmortality on, but he didn't hit the killers anyway

Mick · Post by **Mick** » 26 Oct 2002, 16:14

thats not how eml cheated. he put gravity up so that when he bounced, he could go further. he didn't put immortality on. merge his rec with another, he gets lots of pace going down from the turn.

btw: dont tell people how to cheat, they may get ideas.

EML · Post by **EML** » 26 Oct 2002, 16:29

Actually i put gravity DOWN. I got less gravity than usual. That's why my front wheel did raise from the ground in the beginning of level. I believed this would make it easier to jump all the way to the flower, but i've tested it and found it actually makes it harder. :P

I did use immortality too, but i dunno if i would have died. Also had 1001 acceleration (normal is 1000) Also note: i think some may use acc. cheating, as it's 2 values (one towards right, one towards left), and if you have the higher acc. only the other way than you start driving it's quite hard to tell. Unless the anticheat-tool is l33t :)

EML - knower of cheating

ribot · Post by **ribot** » 26 Oct 2002, 17:57

how could gravity down make it easier?

Post by **SveinR** » 27 Oct 2002, 11:05

Well, if you look at the moon...there's lower gravity there than here on earth, thus, the austronauts are much lighter, and have a higher possibility of reaching something high up.

DacBitch · Post by **DacBitch** » 27 Oct 2002, 12:19

yeah but it also takes 6x longer hehe

ribot · Post by **ribot** » 27 Oct 2002, 12:58

oh yea what i mean then is how can it be easier if gravity is larger?

ciph · Post by **ciph** » 27 Oct 2002, 22:11

milagros you think my 14,23 warmup is cheated? lol

well i have 14.23 5 times now.......are they all cheat0r??

dz · Post by dz » 28 Oct 2002, 00:12

Mick wrote: btw: dont tell people how to cheat, they may get ideas.

question which can always be looked at in many ways... if u spoil and dont tell mama, she doesnt know to clean it up..

edi0tr: damn

chux · Post by **chux** » 28 Oct 2002, 22:48

ribot wrote:oh yea what i mean then is how can it be easier if gravity is larger?

Im guessing because it keeps you on the ground where you can accelerate more...?

ribot · Post by **ribot** » 29 Oct 2002, 07:02

ciph as i understand it he could confirm your time

dz · Post by dz » 29 Oct 2002, 11:29

i dont like this touching flower from more far away than others..

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 29 Oct 2002, 19:04

ciph wrote:milagros you think my 14,23 warmup is cheated? lol well i have 14.23 5 times now.......are they all cheat0r??

naaah,
i just knew the exact time and i was testing whether my way of detecting exact time works

i've lost my replays and the only way to test it was to download something somewhere

ciph · Post by **ciph** » 1 Nov 2002, 00:26

ohhh ok

hope your testing goes well

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 1 Nov 2002, 22:05

ciph wrote:ohhh ok hope your testing goes well

i stopped testing
but it worked

dz · Post by dz » 1 Nov 2002, 22:08

only thing which matters is did it work hundread percent :%?

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 1 Nov 2002, 22:17

dz wrote:only thing which matters is did it work hundread percent :%?

probably yes
i haven't found any problem....but haven't tested too much

Provisional · Post by **Provisional** » 3 Nov 2002, 07:11

how do the elma recs work/how are they compiled? obviously its not by keystrokes that are encoded into the file otherwise merging two completely different levels like WarmUp and FF, a player could not drive in the air. so the .rec file uses frames or something similar right? wouldnt it be more cheat-safe if the .recs were encoded with the drivers' settings (grav, accele., elasticity, etc.) and it had their keystrokes (like a macro saves the keystrokes)? This way if the person that cheated sent you their replay and you viewed it on your PC, you would only be shown their keystrokes/movements and not their positions on a virtual grid of some sort.
fyi, im not some pc expert nor am I a hax0r, but i think im somewhat right.
this is just some idea; elma already has its .rec structure and a change would be very difficult, if not, profound to some. so things wont change. but if elma had been this way, would it be more difficult to cheat, Milagros? if not, whats the vulnerability in that theory?

Ky.Jelly · Post by **Ky.Jelly** » 3 Nov 2002, 10:20

all of this is way ova my head,
how the fuck do u do sum of that sh1t,
no dont tell me i dont wanna kno,

yep thats rite, im a no0b

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 3 Nov 2002, 13:50

Provisional wrote:how do the elma recs work/how are they compiled? obviously its not by keystrokes that are encoded into the file otherwise merging two completely different levels like WarmUp and FF, a player could not drive in the air. so the .rec file uses frames or something similar right? wouldnt it be more cheat-safe if the .recs were encoded with the drivers' settings (grav, accele., elasticity, etc.) and it had their keystrokes (like a macro saves the keystrokes)? This way if the person that cheated sent you their replay and you viewed it on your PC, you would only be shown their keystrokes/movements and not their positions on a virtual grid of some sort.
fyi, im not some pc expert nor am I a hax0r, but i think im somewhat right.
this is just some idea; elma already has its .rec structure and a change would be very difficult, if not, profound to some. so things wont change. but if elma had been this way, would it be more difficult to cheat, Milagros? if not, whats the vulnerability in that theory?

it can't be saved as the keystrokes because elma runs always different - you can see it in some levs where the wheel sometimes rises, sometimes not
even when you make level that is finished without any keystrokes - some downhill, it finishes in different time
it's even possible to make lev that is sometimes finished and sometimes not without pressing any key
..and yes, cheating is very easy, all those nitro options, edditing internal lev, edidting replay
anyway i'll not cheat...i've got already into the table without it
now i play only for fun

cheat0r

cheat0r

I wonder....

Opinions, huh?

.

hi

Re: hi