Opinions about MP's case on WorldCup4

jcl · Post by **jcl** » 7 Oct 2002, 06:22

As most of you already know, MP lost 75 points on event 4, because his mail was lost somewhere enroute to PeXi. By listening to discussion on #across i noticed that many ppl don't want MP's result being accepted because they "can't get sure if the ride was made on time". Well, I doubt this is the real reason. I think the real reason is one of the following:

a.) The kuski would lose points on event 4 if MP gets his points
-or-
b.) The kuski would lose places on total standings if MP gets his points

Well, i don't want to accuse anybody by this, there are exceptions to this.

Probably the mistake in worldcup organizing cannot be cured now, but i started this thread to make sure it does not happen again. Please share your opinions by answering these questions:
1. Do you think it's really that bad if you lose some points?
2. How would you feel disqualified this way?
3. How would you feel if you'll beat MP by 75 points in the final standings?
4. What can be done to prevent such cases from now on?

jcl · Post by **jcl** » 7 Oct 2002, 06:33

My answers:

1. I only got 7 points, but i would gladly sacrifice all my points if it's required to make wc4 going fair.
2. I would feel terrible, 75 points are quite much, and it's not my mistake so probably i would rage around, and innocent people would suffer.
3. Hm no chance for me for such a position, but beating someone this way is some kind of cheating i guess. (why only 2 had a word backing up MP from top players?)
4. Apart from auto-replying wcup mails, i suggest px to set up a backup mail address (on another host, not on moposite), so ppl can send to both, reducing chances of lost mail. If no problems occur, those backup mails could be deleted with some clicks, so no extra work for PeXi.

magicman · Post by **magicman** » 7 Oct 2002, 08:41

MP.... u wanted this place sooO0 much! fucking mail!
but dont quit elma for this!

hmmmm rules are rules but....

aehw

how about bartek too?

Tapzu · Post by **Tapzu** » 7 Oct 2002, 08:58

I feel sorry for MP. I had alotta problems with my mails in wcup3 but fortunately I always got them trough somehow, a couple of times via DCC or other people's e-mail. Its a pity e-mail ain't as reliable as snailmail (not!)

Karlis · Post by **Karlis** » 7 Oct 2002, 09:16

this has happened to others too........you can't never be sure if your mail got there. we talked about automatic reply thing on #across, that would help a lot, you get reply instantly after your mail is on pexi's mailbox

if and only if we would give those points to MP, there would be more of these kind of situation in the future, somebody could use this for cheating, you get all the best styles usually right after deadline and you can the easily improve your time then...........the just say OMG, why isn't my time on results, what has happened to my mail. I'm sure MP didn't cheat, but you have to draw the line somewhere, same rules for everyone. of course you can think that I'm against giving points to MP only because he would go ahead of me in the standing, but that is not why I'm against it.
I really hope MP won't stop playing wcup because of this.

EML · Post by **EML** » 7 Oct 2002, 11:26

It's a game, ok? The rules say it should be sendt before that exact date and time, and it should reach the mopdaters. Off course something shitty can happend, but, hey, that's just life. If you don't send in on time you don't get to be in the competition.

I know same thing happend to AAL in wcup3. I don't remember if he would have won or be second, but he didn't get on the list though.

I think you should take it as a man. Don't whine about it, cuz it really doesn't mean anything. I think you should NOT get the points, and I didn't even play the event, so I can't be saying that because I want to keep my own points. I just don't think you deserve it, as this is shit that can happend to anyone, and I'm sure it have happened to others than MP, and you should not get the points just cuz you were a bitch about it.

EML - Wotan Mit Uns! (I have no idea what that means, but it sounds cool)

kuiva · Post by **kuiva** » 7 Oct 2002, 12:06

i thought also that mp should get his points. at the end it's pexis decision.

i don't think anyone is seriously thinking that mp is lying.

karlis, no these situations wouldn't happen again if px would start using some autoreply-thingie.

u'll get over it mp, don't stop.

GodFather · Post by **GodFather** » 7 Oct 2002, 12:23

We all got our opinions about everything. Mine is that MP should have 0 points. If there are rules then everybody must obey them. We can't have any competitions if the rules doesn't exist. And MP don't quit Elma because of this. It's just another shitty day in the shitty world. Cheer up and read the song that someone wrote here a while ago. Something like "always look at the bright side of life"

MP · Post by MP » 7 Oct 2002, 13:13

Ok i didn't jump from the balcony and am still alive, feeling little better today.
Thanks for your support, I don't know about wcup...at least play the amount what is fun but no extra hÃ¶yl to get time better

btw. the mail had arrived now...too bad one day late

Karlis · Post by **Karlis** » 7 Oct 2002, 14:01

and get better email, ok?!?! you had problems with this one earlier too, so maybe it really would be time change......

yes, cheer up, you still have that mission: "beat all FM players"

Antz · Post by **Antz** » 7 Oct 2002, 15:09

2bad for MP, but there's no point in breaking the rules every time an accident happens. with email reply these kind of accidents would almost certainly be avoided.

ribot · Post by **ribot** » 7 Oct 2002, 15:11

so why is there no email reply?

another idea could be to allow dcc sending with irc.

Post by **SveinR** » 7 Oct 2002, 15:35

Email reply would be nice. Although, not of much use for me, since I usually send in 10-20 minutes before deadline, because I get up early Sunday morning to hÃ¶yl..don't know why though, only on one event I got a new best time on Sunday (event 2 I think)

Antz · Post by **Antz** » 7 Oct 2002, 16:11

the reply would (and will?) be automaticly sent immediately after wcup@moposite.com(?) receives ur mail, just like when notification comes of private messages to ur email right after u've received the pm. abu said yesterday, that it wouldn't even be difficult or require much work to add such a thing.

Kopaka · Post by **Kopaka** » 7 Oct 2002, 16:34

I feel sorry for you MP, if it were me that lost 75 points, i would feel VERY bad.

And well if Pexi doesn't get tour mail in time, how can he give you points ?

Ofcourse it would be a strange situation to win with 74 p. or something over MP, then you don't feel you really won over him.

MP · Post by MP » 7 Oct 2002, 16:48

That auto-reply thing sure is helpfull. From now on I will use different mail.

dz · Post by dz » 7 Oct 2002, 16:50

for one invidual i would gladly give opportunity to get points later if circumtances are into it, but as we look at it with wider look, it would only have negative effects, there would be more people with same problem/claiming to have and it would make things even more complicated, so i dont think anyone should get points if pexi didnt get their mail before deadline.

solution: use the automatic mail-reply fgs pexi..

onlainari · Post by **onlainari** » 7 Oct 2002, 21:56

blah,I always thought that when the e-mail is in "sent mails" it means it has arrived to the receiver,I guess that is not true then. I agree with dz\.

Post by **Abula** » 8 Oct 2002, 10:07

BarTek wrote:have u noticed that either abula nor pexi did answer this topic....talk about bad service ok`?

Bad service for free, ok. Anyway I don't arrange WCup so it's not up to me this time.

And if anybody wants to hear my opinion (I just didn't want to say same things again, which some people already told in this thread): I agree with dz. I want to beat MP with 76 points in final standings. If I beat less it doesn't fell too good.

Solution: MP should hoyl himself to the victory. Then everything would be alright.

Juk · Post by **Juk** » 8 Oct 2002, 10:34

if I had made a time to 75 points i think i would mail it 2 times from 2 different acounts, just to be sure. dont know what pexi would say to that, but i guess it would be okay if i had a good time.

Post by px » 8 Oct 2002, 11:42

I agree with dz. And I'm trying to get that auto-reply function.

Juk · Post by **Juk** » 8 Oct 2002, 12:47

people should only send 2 mails if they had a really good time, but then again how to know what a good time is? the reply solution is bether. I hope it can prevent thing like this.

MP · Post by MP » 8 Oct 2002, 12:50

Juk I didnt' want to bother pexi with two mails

ribot · Post by **ribot** » 8 Oct 2002, 13:08

how late was mp anyway? couldnt he get late punishment and still gain some points

Antz · Post by **Antz** » 8 Oct 2002, 15:16

well, he noticed he wasn't in the list and the list was put online somewhere after 20, maybe around nine o'clock so it would've been 8-9 hours late.

Post by px » 8 Oct 2002, 21:05

1) The wcup email autoreply should work now.

2) MP's mail arrived about 22h 58mins after the deadline :)

MP · Post by MP » 9 Oct 2002, 13:06

Ye, but the mail shows that it was sent saturday...so there is proof that I sent it in time and because auto replay works and this kind of thing happen again what about giving the points now :)

jcl · Post by **jcl** » 9 Oct 2002, 15:01

Yeah, i think now MP should have his points, too!

ribot · Post by **ribot** » 9 Oct 2002, 15:33

you can't for sure rely on the mail time as proof, since i used to get e-mails sent from the future. i suppose it depends on the e-mail service, but this should be possible to investigate, and if the time is valified mp should get the points

Antz · Post by **Antz** » 9 Oct 2002, 15:52

w00t, messages from the future ^^. u still on this world ribot =)? hmm i think too that MoPo should get his 75 points now, though it would still b one big job to change all the tables..

ribot · Post by **ribot** » 9 Oct 2002, 16:31

i suppose the date was set so that it looked like they are sent from the future, but i didnt investigate it

onlainari · Post by **onlainari** » 9 Oct 2002, 17:22

how can we be sure that MoPo didn't plan this all and hoyled his time on sunday and then mailed it 23h too late and fixed the mail that it has been sent in time. No way to change opinions. The auto-mail reply wasn't yet at that time ,so there's no evidence MP should get his points. We know you are just wanting to get symphaty from us. I think the best solution is that we all try his ALP contest. Well anyway that is still only profit for you,if you tried to cheat. I personelle don't think you tried anything and I believe you.

It doesn't require a ONE person to say that you fixed the time,but still it's a good reason to not give you the points.

MP · Post by MP » 9 Oct 2002, 20:46

onlainari wrote:We know you are just wanting to get symphaty from us

We? You have brought friends there too to think about this

onlainari wrote:how can we be sure that MoPo didn't plan this all and hoyled his time on sunday and then mailed it 23h too late and fixed the mail that it has been sent in time

Maybe i wrote all the logs too? And not just to my computer, there was a lot work to get those to villes, psys, barteks, kuivas and magicmans computer too. Ye I planned this a week before deadline (and knew what time i will get later of course) because i was sure i wont get good drive in time.
....OK you were just giving possibilities but this would be "quite" much cheating work for one wcup round, maybe easier to just buy some programmers to make that save&load program..ahem

onlainari · Post by **onlainari** » 10 Oct 2002, 07:03

btw using the "saveload" word in here or irc should be banned in my opinion.

Maybe they were with your plan ? Do you think ppl are stupid. Of course you could unite with "number of ppl there are in elma minus 1" to cheat against the only one. It doesn't ask the size of a group working. And don't now say that what's the profit for them,you only make yourself more foolish. I can answer the question beforehand. Of course you could pay them. Or perhaps if you were on the list villes etc opponents would get less points etc. or maybe sending rec for them. And there is never too little work for anything. Everything is worthy. If they teach the values like "trust people" in your family it doesn't mean the same thought is in everyone's head c(:

Ramone · Post by **Ramone** » 10 Oct 2002, 11:28

why should you be banned for using the frase "save & load"? Fascism? It is not what words you use, it is how you use them. Like saying it is illegal to use the word "Hitler" in public. Of course ppl should be allowed to use whatever words they want, a ban should be based on the persons certain case. CanÂ´t see why anyone should sagree. It is when ppl like you try to stop freedom the world goes like it went in (for instance Germany). You could say this is not the same at all... but after a comes b comes c comes d and you are not allowed to say anything!!! (sipperey slope argument). With common sense all (probably) words can be used.

(btw. special status for onla: MiniHitler?

)

I have nothing against you onla but you could try to think trough the things you say a bit more before saying them, please feel free to defend your position, after all, this board is pretty free, or shall we ban ppl who try to defend the views who dont fit with your opinions?

MP · Post by MP » 10 Oct 2002, 12:26

Black list (it's the worst shame in Elma scene to get here)
- mrDJ = Sir Evil X = Satan = EML: cheated many WRs
- Weird-AAL = AAL-Owen: also cheated WRs
- MoSH-MaN: cheated Warm Up WR
- onlainari = million different nicks: has cheated (at least) one WR
- Ambulance = has cheated two WRs and stolen & spread others' recs publically
- Samu = cheated Flat Track WR

...you must really know what youre talking about.

I understand that the points wont ge give anymore but I dont like when I'm called as cheater. Payd them money?...suuure suure (and why didnt I pay directly to pexi if this is so important?)

onlainari · Post by **onlainari** » 11 Oct 2002, 10:08

yeah the ban for word was just BS. I hate the word ,but I find myself using it very often and I hate it.

And about me. I'm kinda person I attack people when I feel like it and it's true that I don't think what I say. I have nothing against MP and I just changed my mind on the ban thing also. I'm against banning,because it violates the rights of people,but in the mopolauta and #across "you become what you are"(so much banning),so some senseless comments might slip. So I guess that answered your other question about banning them that doesn't fit my thinking. But then again I can add,if i'm pissed off on someone I still could ban and harm his rights because I like it,but in general I don't support banning.
Find it surprising to call me a hitler. But about him. I believe in destiny and I can't think what world would look without the major catastrophes it has went through. I have only seen Hitler through manipulating media,so I don't give any comments about him. These new nazi's are quite dumb people.

Ramone · Post by **Ramone** » 11 Oct 2002, 11:24

ok, olna... it was a little lousy of me... but reductio ad absurdum seemed neccesary in this case, to open your mind... of course I dont see an analogy between you and Hitler... just trying to open your eyes by making my point more than clear....
you understand

ribot · Post by **ribot** » 11 Oct 2002, 15:02

onla is a really nice gay, he's different from all the finnish ircers, much more open minded and trevlig..

mp is c0ol, i would give him points cos i trust him and he's nice. but not to forget is that if he gets points, then it will probably rise other similar cases, and other cases that ppl claim to be similar. how can px trust mp and then not trust next guy? and if he doesnt trust next guy, it will be much more unfair if mp is the only guy trusted. it's might not be fair to remove mp's points, but if it's done at least the case is over and won't be dragged along the whole cup. or will it? when i thought through this it seems like there will be less commotion if px is fazi, but maybe i'm just defending my stand point. it doesnt matter anyway, i have given my pov and no one cares about it anyway.

then about nazism and hitler. i am a bit of nazist. as much as i'm communist, anarchist, miljÃ¶partist. they all have good thoughts, and also their definitions are blurry. i dont think any of them are good political systems, but i think political systems are totally stupid anyway. i could go more into this but maybe no one will read it so :*

Antz · Post by **Antz** » 11 Oct 2002, 21:08

ribot wrote:onla is a really nice gay

hmm, misspell =)?

ribot wrote:they all have good thoughts

that's true. even socialism, that has devastated many eastern european countries, aims in common welfare and prosperity. much of what causes problems is human selfishness and greed.

DacBitch · Post by **DacBitch** » 13 Oct 2002, 14:40

i guess noone can envy mp in this situation. oh yeah, isn't there a punishment for "replay sent too late"? I know it's a bit different situation here (cause PeXi didn't know his time neither), but I guess he could have got punished instead of being disqualified. I don't think anyone would do this (not send in time) on purpose, especially when it's such good time. Just give him the points, god damn it!!!

Opinions about MP's case on WorldCup4

Opinions about MP's case on WorldCup4

.........

MP iz dead.....?

.

.

Re: !

.

.

MP should not get points

.

.

[i]BANNING IS NOT RIGHT[/i]