Rules and Punishment

Ky.Jelly · Post by **Ky.Jelly** » 29 Dec 2002, 02:49

Rules & punishments
- Usually the ban will be one year (not allowed to participate to any of the Moposite contests)
- All incorrect times will be fixed in the lists and statistics
- Creating a new nick name to play during the ban means a forever ban
- Rules defined above can be changed

i think a one year ban is a bit tuff and i definatley dont think a life long ban is going to help anything, if you ban them for a year and they change nicks, whats to stop them doing it again and again, there is no real way u can ban someone, only the nick they have been using

MagnusB · Post by **MagnusB** » 29 Dec 2002, 03:05

1 year is basically like life in this case. No one is going to return to the community exactly one year after they were banned. The game might even be completely dead by then (let's hope not).
My suggestion for punishment is as follows:

Â§1 When cheating is exposed
a) Removal of all cheated times.
b) If the cheat is more serious, removal of all times made by cheater on the Records table in subject. (Proper authority decides what is 'more serious')

Â§2 When cheating is exposed multiple times
If a person is caught cheating on two or more different occasions, where the subjected cheats on the latter occasion(s) have been performed after the cheating of the first occasion was exposed, the person is banned for life.

I should be a lawyer ok?

Antz · Post by **Antz** » 29 Dec 2002, 07:36

so (thinking this in other occasions), if u rob stuff:

Â§1 u get caught
a)give stolen stuff back
b)if steal big time, give stolen stuff back, and also other stuff u got that is similar (steal cars => give ur own cars away).

Â§2 u get caught again
someone orders u never to steal again.

Â§1a is ridiculously light punishment
Â§1b is oddly, but maybe the only punishment with any point in it.

Â§2 is useless and has no real power behind it.

Post by **Abula** » 29 Dec 2002, 10:53

mrickx got caught twice. He could have told us after Long Haul but he didn't. Also his cheating was so hard and serious that in our opinion he really needs a long ban.

I know people can change nicks but I hope it won't be very fun for them to hide their true identity and not getting the honour etc. But if no bans are given other players might make conclusions "Wth, they didn't get anything, I will cheat too untill I got caught and then play fairly."

MagnusB · Post by **MagnusB** » 29 Dec 2002, 14:37

Antz wrote:so (thinking this in other occasions), if u rob stuff:

Â§1 u get caught
a)give stolen stuff back
b)if steal big time, give stolen stuff back, and also other stuff u got that is similar (steal cars => give ur own cars away).

Â§2 u get caught again
someone orders u never to steal again.

Â§1a is ridiculously light punishment
Â§1b is oddly, but maybe the only punishment with any point in it.

Â§2 is useless and has no real power behind it.

For god's sake antz, you can't compare this to stealing!

Â§1a might be a light punishment, but let's look at the case of Karlis. I don't think anyone would want to ban him from the community nor remove all his other WRs. He's been a part of the scene for a very long time, and I'm convinced he will never cheat again. If he will never cheat again, why punish him any more than that? The other WRs are legal, and there's no reason why they should be removed. If he is caught cheating later on, then obviously... tell him to get the hell out of here.

Â§1b was just an alternative, in case someone has cheated so much that they deserve a greater punishment.

What do you mean Â§2 has no power behind it? Over the internet, there's no greater punishment than banning. What would you like to do? Go to the person's house and kill them? We obviously can't prevent that someone returns under a different name, but there is no better way.

mrickx and Nostrada have both violated Â§2 (:D), so they should be banned. How long is a different question. I say their cheating has been so serious that they should be banned for life. No hard feelings, but they obviously haven't taken the hint.

Antz · Post by **Antz** » 29 Dec 2002, 15:12

well. nostra pretty much shows just how much banning can do. it is naive to expect ppl to be nice and kindly not come back to elma scene with different nick after what they've done to get the ban.

i agree stealing wasn't really good thing to compare with. it just popped in my mind and being tired i decided "what the heck" and wrote it.

MagnusB · Post by **MagnusB** » 29 Dec 2002, 15:19

It really annoys me that people like Nostrada and EML have to cheat. They're really good players anyway, most of the WRs they've cheated they would've gotten also without the cheat. (Unless they've also used timescale or other more serious cheats, I'm not sure.) I feel less symapthy with mrickx, he's practically cheated his whole career.

As for Nostrada returning, I don't think it will happen this time. You never know of course, but people will be a lot more suspicious from now on. Whenever a new guy enters the scene and does well in a short amount of time everyone will think it's Nostrada.

dz · Post by dz » 29 Dec 2002, 15:24

MagnusB wrote:(Unless they've also used timescale or other more serious cheats, I'm not sure.)

i think it's been made pretty clear that they did; actually tools show they used timescale, and they haven't been wrong so far as far as i know

MagnusB · Post by **MagnusB** » 29 Dec 2002, 15:27

OK. I couldn't remember who did what.

In that case, to hell with them!

Post by **Abula** » 29 Dec 2002, 15:31

Antz:

1) Banning
-> The cheater might keep on playing with another nick
-> Other people see it's bad thing to cheat

2) Not banning
-> The cheater keep on playing with same nick
-> Other people think it's not that bad thing to cheat

Choose the better alternative, 1 or 2.

Antz · Post by **Antz** » 29 Dec 2002, 15:33

yep i know 1) is better than 2), but i feel there's a need for 3)

MagnusB · Post by **MagnusB** » 29 Dec 2002, 15:57

Don't you understand Antz? There is no 3. There is nothing else to do, you can't tell the cheaters to delete elma, or anything else.

Antz · Post by **Antz** » 29 Dec 2002, 16:02

yep i know. but it still doesn't remove the need for it.

MP · Post by MP » 29 Dec 2002, 16:04

3) HANG THEM!!!

Antz · Post by **Antz** » 29 Dec 2002, 16:09

well we could search a nice virus and plant it in their computers and it would suck the elma away from them for now and forever, MUAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahahaahahahah

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 29 Dec 2002, 16:25

the conclusion is:
if the kuski banned forever plays under different nick, he will be banned forever:))

Ky.Jelly · Post by **Ky.Jelly** » 29 Dec 2002, 20:12

will those peple baned for life hav there none cheated tt removed, caus if they dont it would make them think, "hey ill see how many nicks i can get a good total time with"

means peple at the other end of the table miss out,

Ky.Jelly · Post by **Ky.Jelly** » 30 Dec 2002, 02:32

abula, could clarify for us (me) who got wot ban???

cause i dont know shit and you said that cheators times had been removed, is that there none cheated times as well or what,

Antz · Post by **Antz** » 30 Dec 2002, 10:06

well i think http://www.moposite.com/stuff_illegality.php answers that quite well.

Post by **Abula** » 30 Dec 2002, 11:51

EML: forever ban
Nostrada: forever ban
mrickx: 12 months

Ky.Jelly · Post by **Ky.Jelly** » 30 Dec 2002, 12:27

why dont they get to keep there none cheated tt and wr,
caus then it like, ok u were the best but u cheated once u lose all ur non cheated stuff as well, borderline on unfair i thinks

Antz · Post by **Antz** » 30 Dec 2002, 12:47

they loose because they repeadetly cheated. e.g karlis doesn't loose because he cheated just once.

petsen · Post by **petsen** » 30 Dec 2002, 12:55

I still think its stupid to take away their not-cheated wr's cause the one who has the second best time will get a wr then but still knowing he isnt the best...

dz · Post by dz » 30 Dec 2002, 13:08

i may have misunderstood some part but who of the banned guys has a wr that is not cheated and still removed?

petsen · Post by **petsen** » 30 Dec 2002, 14:08

I dont know if there is any I just meant if someone cheated and had a wr removed that wasnt cheated,, that would be bad, and ive seen the 19.75 enigma rec like everyone else, and I cant see anything cheated... of course with the anti cheat programs used they might find something... but what ?

Post by **Abula** » 30 Dec 2002, 15:06

Only cheated WRs are removed. EML, Nostrada and mrickx cheated all the WRs they have ever had (well I'm not 100% sure about Weird-AAL's first WR in Freefall over two years ago, anyway). Statedited WRs are not removed either, only fixed (expect those which actually aren't WRs like Karlis' Turnaround 39,83).

petsen · Post by **petsen** » 30 Dec 2002, 17:06

ook fair enough

Post by **SveinR** » 30 Dec 2002, 19:57

Moposite wrote:Cheating methods are not for public but EML, Nostrada and mrickx used some kind of harder cheating and therefore they will be banned

Why get a harder punishment because you used a "harder" type of cheating? Cheating is cheating, no matter what.

Post by **Abula** » 30 Dec 2002, 21:28

SveinR:

You don't see any difference between cheating one WR 0,01 better by statediting eventhough you would have the WR anyway or cheating 40 WRs during 2-3 years using different kind of methods such as different gravity / timescale / immortality etc? I see.

Post by **SveinR** » 30 Dec 2002, 23:03

Not if the amount of cheated WR's was alike.
You didn't say anything about that on Moposite.
Of course, cheating 40 WR's and cheating 1 WR are not to be handled likewise.