The History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by **Abula** » 12 Mar 2018, 19:10

Thanks! So searching in Google and Youtube might be a new way to get involved. We should add basic moto terms to Elma websites

. At least to those which try to welcome new players.

Abula wrote: ↑11 Mar 2018, 10:47 DAFF104.lev (gaa14)?
Julkalendern (gaa14)?

Please check your lev dir active mans! I'm adding screenshots of all winning levels and these two are the only missing ones in 2003-2017.

Did Roope organize gaa14 (http://wiki.elmaonline.net/Golden_Apple_Awards_2014)? Maybe he has collected the files? It's ok if not because I can create them from the files which I can find but takes time and prolly not possible to find all candidates etc. And there's also the chance that I go away again before it's done.

Kopaka · Post by **Kopaka** » 12 Mar 2018, 19:58

Abula wrote: ↑11 Mar 2018, 10:47Or if not, where can I find DAFF104.lev (gaa14)?

http://elmaonline.net/downloads/lev/262348

Schumi · Post by **Schumi** » 12 Mar 2018, 20:18

Julk: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9172&p=238984&hilit=julkalendern

farnsworth · Post by **farnsworth** » 13 Mar 2018, 12:29

Abula wrote: ↑12 Mar 2018, 19:10 Thanks! So searching in Google and Youtube might be a new way to get involved. We should add basic moto terms to Elma websites . At least to those which try to welcome new players.

I'm not sure about that, the thing is that people think elasto mania cost money(which is might do, but it's a hurdle) and it is rather hard to make an account and connect it to eol. Todays standard is; download app and play - no config etc etc.

So like a when someone search google for elasto mania online, it should come to some blank page(could be more fancy ofc) with "how to do"

1. "register here"
2. "download game here"
3. "open config and type in your user name and password"
4. "play"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5. "Spy Talli and cry for a few weeks because underskilled as fuck"
6. "underpants and free hat"

..... With small - the stuff you don't need to actually play. "chat f9" and some other functions.

It must be simple and easy:D

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 13 Mar 2018, 17:00

installing is complicated, because it still requires original elma to run (update in order 1.11->1.2->eol)
i am not saying it is legal as it is now, but at least balazs can't sue the site for any financial losses

Post by **Abula** » 13 Mar 2018, 22:37

It's good that you can't play Elma via some Apple shop because the way it's now, only the most devoted, most interesting people end up to play Elma. But we should make it a bit more welcoming when they finally get to the website.

Something like:

1. Very clear and simple webpage, only the minimum data included.

2. Screenshot/EDQ + text "Do you want to play Elasto Mania, the best trial bike game ever createad? Ps. it was published in 2000 but the community has developed it to new dimensions."

3. Simple steps what needs to be done (+ apology).

4. In far bottom corner "?" icon which reveals "more links" when clicked.

Maybe I can do it later, shouldn't take many hours (added to todo)

farnsworth · Post by **farnsworth** » 14 Mar 2018, 13:42

Abula wrote: ↑13 Mar 2018, 22:37 It's good that you can't play Elma via some Apple shop because the way it's now, only the most devoted, most interesting people end up to play Elma.

(secretheartsmileyface)

Edit:
You, of course, do it in anyway you find it to make sense(:

Post by **Abula** » 16 Mar 2018, 19:30

Is this new "mila's tool" public which Zweq etc. uses to create these insane SL recs (like http://www.recsource.tv/r/sumoigaxzf)? I don't bother to learn to use it myself but is there any interesting material of it available like a screenshot of some settings or something like that?

Many many years ago I tested some SL (because of some admin tasks) but I recall it was pain in the ass to replay those old drives, even waiting everytime to get to the spot again...? I'm pretty sure these limpsys are not done that way

Post by **Abula** » 17 Mar 2018, 00:14

I went through all replay topics in Mopolauta but didn't find any uphilling replays. Anyone has any good Nekit replay from EOL era (2010+)? I saw him playing in FEM and some random battles earlier and would like to add a replay of that kind. I have Zweq's 2007 but I know there is more.

ps. found many other interesting replays

Post by **Abula** » 17 Mar 2018, 21:55

Ok found this http://www.recsource.tv/r/biqgnelysd but if someone has contact to Nekit, please ask him if there is more interesting available. I hope it is finished and no long breaks to keep the replay entertaining to watch. No sl.

Also I think I read somewhere that Belma didn't have user accounts but the configuration settings do have nick and password. Not a big deal but if someone remembers something?

Hosp · Post by **Hosp** » 18 Mar 2018, 08:26

I remember could just put watever there, I nicked John once and TorInge once lol

Post by **Abula** » 19 Mar 2018, 22:08

Moved wheelpop discussion to own topic: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9873

jaytea · Post by **jaytea** » 22 Mar 2018, 12:04

in your little article under 2006 you should have a picture of me destroying battles because that's what i did all of that year.

iCS · Post by **iCS** » 22 Mar 2018, 18:40

Abula wrote: ↑17 Mar 2018, 21:55 Ok found this http://www.recsource.tv/r/biqgnelysd but if someone has contact to Nekit, please ask him if there is more interesting available. I hope it is finished and no long breaks to keep the replay entertaining to watch. No sl.

http://www.recsource.tv/r/wzijhxekfd
http://elmaonline.net/battles/129652
http://elmaonline.net/battles/66149
http://www.recsource.tv/r/udqzvoimsa
http://www.recsource.tv/r/cdmgleikzs
http://www.recsource.tv/r/mlizgcrhoa

non-Nekit replays:
http://www.recsource.tv/r/xoszwfikyp
http://www.recsource.tv/r/bjkrdsathc
http://elmaonline.net/battles/83811
http://elmaonline.net/battles/91019
http://www.recsource.tv/r/oynqbpvmaw

Post by **Abula** » 24 Mar 2018, 21:24

Code: Select all

2003-04-13: radim's levelmaker in https://mopolauta.moposite.com/viewtopic.php?t=1302
2006-03-14: Ribot's Random Level Generator (https://mopolauta.moposite.com/viewtopic.php?p=107076#p107076)
2007-07-17: ElmaLevelGenerator by DaFred (https://mopolauta.moposite.com/viewtopic.php?t=5372)
2011: Online Level Generator by Ville_J?
2011-02-03: new level generator by ribot (https://mopolauta.moposite.com/viewtopic.php?p=203608#p203608)
2012-07-23: Stinis
 * http://elmaonline.net/statistics/level/186430 
 * http://elmaonline.net/statistics/level/184980 
 * http://elmaonline.net/statistics/level/261744
 * http://elmaonline.net/statistics/level/370675
2013-04-22: Zebra's Level Editor (https://mopolauta.moposite.com/viewtopic.php?p=229680#p229680)
2013-08-25: Domi's Lev Creat0r (https://mopolauta.moposite.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8933&p=231962)
 * https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/228598206101979136/427205148834660372/2018-03-24_223820.png
2014-02-08: Quantum Level Generator by ribot https://mopolauta.moposite.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9025&p=233964
 * http://elmaonline.net/statistics/level/255748
 * http://elmaonline.net/statistics/level/117291

Anyone has levels made by Radim's, Ville_J's, DaFred's, Zebra's or Domi's generators? Or ribot's first version? Or screenshots of the programs?

Post by **Abula** » 24 Mar 2018, 22:39

iCS wrote: ↑22 Mar 2018, 18:40...

Uh, have you watched them? Top-3? Thanks!

iCS · Post by **iCS** » 25 Mar 2018, 10:15

Uh, have you watched them? Top-3? Thanks!

Watched some of them. I would select these:
http://www.recsource.tv/r/mlizgcrhoa
http://www.recsource.tv/r/wzijhxekfd
http://www.recsource.tv/r/xoszwfikyp

Post by **Abula** » 25 Mar 2018, 11:29

viewtopic.php?p=260751#p260751

Who won The Battle Cup?

Code: Select all

Battle Cups in Age of EOL:

Start         Name                    Winner     Organizer(s)
--------------------------------------------------------------
2013-03-27    The Battle Cup          ?          TAP
2014-12-01    World Battle Cup        Zweq       Ramone & Zero
2016-04-08    World Battle Cup II     Zero       niN

Found answer: not organized

Post by **Abula** » 25 Mar 2018, 17:35

New questions:

26. Picture of Discord chat room? Found.
27. Picture of Skype conference call? Or any other such service if there were many people involved. TeamSpeak?

AFAIK, we've got IRC, forums, Wikipedia, blogs, Youtube, Twitter, Facebook, EOL chat, Discord and Whatsapp.

Post by **Abula** » 25 Mar 2018, 20:30

28. Were there other Finnish meetings between 2011 Lousku and FEM13? Or anywhere else... I think I saw somewhere that there was team MiE meeting in 2012 but what are the details?

roope · Post by **roope** » 25 Mar 2018, 20:54

roope wrote: ↑23 Feb 2018, 08:17 2012 was a small meeting at my cabin (Lousku, roope, jonsykkel, Spef)

That meeting was a part of Lousku jon Spef roadtrip where they visited multiple elma mans but I guess they can tell more about who they visited and what happened. No official MiE meetings in that time period, maybe some one-on-one meets but those have little to do with Elma.

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 25 Mar 2018, 21:23

I have a few questions concerning old world cups, if anyone knows answer to any of these questions please reply here

Does anyone know or where to look for the event durations or deadlines for:
- world cup 1
- world cup 2000
- world cup 3

WCup 2000 designers table (was it mostly px?):
WC2K01 ?
WC2K02 ?
WC2K03 ?
WC2K04 ?
WC2K05 ?
WC2K06 PeXi
WC2K07 psy
WC2K08 BLAKE ?
WC2K09 ?
WC2K10 ?
WC2K11 ?
WC2K12 skint0r ?
WC2K13 ?
WC2K14 ?
WC2K15 ?

WCup 3 designers missing:
- WCup308 ? oke markku said skint0r
- WCup319 ? (i guess it's px because it's a rollercoaster)

Clarification needed:
WCup309 designer, is it Ilkka or IIkka or IIKKA or llkka or ilkka or likka. Definitely not ILKKA because he was not born yet

WCup312 designer, it says "iDeAs wcup lvl" in the level name, was there a kuski called iDeA ?

What is these kuskis nationality:
same (winner of WC2K01)
aal-owen (winner of WCup312)

Post by **Abula** » 25 Mar 2018, 23:39

Hm, FEM14-17 details somewhere? Found this:

Code: Select all

Details of Finnish Elma Meetings 2014-2017:

Year     Location     Multi WRs   Participants    1h tt      6 first    BB win       Battler
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2014     Sastamala       ?          ~30 (4)         ?           ?       Ville_J?     ?
2015     Sastamala       ?          ~20 (3)         ?           ?       Ville_J?     ?
2016     Sastamala       ?           26 (6)         ?           ?       jblaze       ?
2017     Sastamala       ?           33 (10)        ?           ?       Zero         ?

*) number of foreigners in brackets

Post by **Abula** » 25 Mar 2018, 23:49

Zweq wrote: ↑25 Mar 2018, 21:23Does anyone know or where to look for the event durations or deadlines for:
- world cup 1
- world cup 2000
- world cup 3

Moponews

Zweq wrote: ↑25 Mar 2018, 21:23 WCup 2000 designers table (was it mostly px?):
WC2K01 ?
WC2K02 ?
WC2K03 ?
WC2K04 ?
WC2K05 ?
WC2K06 PeXi
WC2K07 psy
WC2K08 BLAKE ?
WC2K09 ?
WC2K10 ?
WC2K11 ?
WC2K12 skint0r ?
WC2K13 ?
WC2K14 ?
WC2K15 ?

Moponews or add "PeXi?"

Zweq wrote: ↑25 Mar 2018, 21:23 WCup312 designer, it says "iDeAs wcup lvl" in the level name, was there a kuski called iDeA ?

"iDeA" (http://moposite.com/archives/web_pages/ ... uskit.html)

Zweq wrote: ↑25 Mar 2018, 21:23 What is these kuskis nationality:
same (winner of WC2K01)
aal-owen (winner of WCup312)

AAL-owen is Nostrada/Deadelous so NOR.

"same" I don't remember, SWE I think.

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 26 Mar 2018, 06:55

thank you very much, I couldn't think of moponews somehow. Also nice archive, didn't know such existed.

Post by **Abula** » 26 Mar 2018, 23:21

29. Answer sheets of FEM Quiz 2014 and 2016?

Post by **Abula** » 28 Mar 2018, 12:49

When replay length was extended from 4:59,99 to X? In which patch?

Post by **Abula** » 28 Mar 2018, 12:52

Zweq wrote: ↑26 Mar 2018, 06:55 thank you very much, I couldn't think of moponews somehow. Also nice archive, didn't know such existed.

All old Moposite versions are here: http://moposite.com/info_moposite_history.php

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 28 Mar 2018, 14:09

replay length and apple times were extended in an early belma version

Post by **Abula** » 28 Mar 2018, 22:36

* http://moposite.com/news_comments.php?newsid=1832
* http://up.k10x.net/jtkxqevgblccm/pelaaja_elma2.jpg
* viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8155

Anyone has the pelaaja_elma2.jpg?

pawq · Post by **pawq** » 29 Mar 2018, 01:34

The real gurus can eg. flip the front wheel over an edge so that the rest of the bike hangs from it like from a liana

Also this should tell us something about the likelihood of further development of Elma 2 (question was why apples):

Balázs Rózsa wrote:No particular reason. As I remember when I made the first graphics for the
game I probably put them in the game thinking that I will later on change
them into something better suited for the game, but then I just did not
change them.

Post by **Abula** » 29 Mar 2018, 09:11

Abula wrote: ↑28 Mar 2018, 22:36 * http://moposite.com/news_comments.php?newsid=1832
* http://up.k10x.net/jtkxqevgblccm/pelaaja_elma2.jpg
* viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8155

Anyone has the pelaaja_elma2.jpg?

Heh, found it from my own archive. Should organize better these dirs one day. They are good up to 2006... I'll add it to the article so will be online in a while.

Post by **Abula** » 29 Mar 2018, 10:16

"WC7 designer award 1.jpg" (by pawq?)

Was this some "official" award or "just" some extra fun? How the awarded level was chosen?

Post by **Abula** » 29 Mar 2018, 19:07

Does someone have the "29.rec" which bene mentioned as an example where head goes through the wall (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9349#p243679)? Not very easy filename to search for.

Post by **Abula** » 29 Mar 2018, 23:32

Schumi wrote: ↑12 Mar 2018, 20:18 Julk: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9172&p=238984&hilit=julkalendern

I didn't really understand this by reading the topic. The website link doesn't work anymore. It's difficult level with an interesting id in EOL db?

http://elmaonline.net/statistics/level/290000

Ok, got answer: this level was the surprise of 20th day. The other days material is apparently not online. Hopefully Ville_J will reupload them one day!

pawq · Post by **pawq** » 30 Mar 2018, 00:06

Abula wrote: ↑29 Mar 2018, 10:16 "WC7 designer award 1.jpg" (by pawq?)

Was this some "official" award or "just" some extra fun? How the awarded level was chosen?

Kinda official i guess. It was voted by the community on lauta in two polls (orka find links on fone), in the first Ramone tied with someone else (Sla? Brain error, can't remember... I blame the hour), and then there was a decider poll where Ramone won. I made teh trophy and presented at fem together with Kopaka's diplomas and trophies for WC6 and WC7, so I guess official then. There's a video of the whole ceremony in FEM 17 pictures, i think probably teh pawq folder (again orka link now, but can search teh FEM17 topic)

Post by **Abula** » 30 Mar 2018, 23:25

Saveload is an interesting issue! It compares to alovolt, train levels and FPS limiter. Founder can keep although fair game is better for everybody. Since when Zweq has used it? Did DarMoeD spread it or mila programmed a new one? I have darmoed_Elma.zip from 2004-10-21 (haven't been in this deep directories for ages) but that's not the source I'm pretty sure.

Smibu published one in 2011-06-17 in Mopolauta but looks like the patch was used in style finding way before. The milatools.zip was used at least before 2011-04-01 and most likely several months before because driving those 32 tt times takes some time. FPS limiter was added to Belma in 2009-10-05 by Smibu but looks like Zweq have also had access to it before that (viewtopic.php?p=238312#p238312).

So it looks like we a had a programmer-player superteam working together and referee Smibu trying to keep it fair. Apparently Russians had own team as well. Rules were not broken so it's ok. FM also had the secret foot pedal for alovolt in 2001

But since when? 2004? If I was asked to guess, I wouldn't be surprised if coding SL before EOL (2006) was more interesting

. The theoretical limit is the ultimate goal after all. At least the insane style finding spree since #255 (2007-01-06) would be better explained.

This piece of history is interesting because of the comparison to alovolt and train levels. Back then the community was much more viral and the unfair situations resolved faster than with SL (2002-2004, 2004-2011).

Did John use it?

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 31 Mar 2018, 02:36

Abula wrote: ↑30 Mar 2018, 23:25 Saveload is an interesting issue! It compares to alovolt, train levels and FPS limiter. Founder can keep although fair game is better for everybody. Since when Zweq has used it? Did DarMoeD spread it or mila programmed a new one? I have darmoed_Elma.zip from 2004-10-21 (haven't been in this deep directories for ages) but that's not the source I'm pretty sure.

darmoed had autoplay, he could not have loaded/saved. I coded the one we used with Zweq to do 32tt.

Abula wrote: ↑30 Mar 2018, 23:25 FPS limiter was added to Belma in 2009-10-05 by Smibu but looks like Zweq have also had access to it before that

fps limiter was added to belma by me, i have no idea where is that info from

Abula wrote: ↑30 Mar 2018, 23:25 So it looks like we a had a programmer-player superteam working together and referee Smibu trying to keep it fair.

wat?

Abula wrote: ↑30 Mar 2018, 23:25Did John use it?

no

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 31 Mar 2018, 02:40

Abula wrote: ↑30 Mar 2018, 23:25 referee Smibu trying to keep it fair.

that was definitely not his motivation, as he didn't know zweq had access to sl
publicly spreading undetectable cheat could have easily ruined the whole scene

Grace · Post by **Grace** » 31 Mar 2018, 05:16

Here is the link to Smibu's thread made the day after he shared his SL. It provides some insights as to why he did it and how the community was reacting. Zweq might also find this link interesting for his "timeline of tools for improving in elma" thread.

Link here.

Post by **Abula** » 31 Mar 2018, 09:43

milagros wrote: ↑31 Mar 2018, 02:36 darmoed had autoplay, he could not have loaded/saved. I coded the one we used with Zweq to do 32tt.

Hm, okay, checked old posts, autoplay, I think I've never seen how to use it

. So you write key presses (timestamp + key) and only view replays, not play at all? Sounds quite boring to drive 50+ WRs this way

If someone can run it, please screenshot! I have only the exe but where to write those datapoints?

milagros wrote: ↑31 Mar 2018, 02:36
Abula wrote: ↑30 Mar 2018, 23:25 FPS limiter was added to Belma in 2009-10-05 by Smibu but looks like Zweq have also had access to it before that
fps limiter was added to belma by me, i have no idea where is that info from

viewtopic.php?p=179912#p179912
viewtopic.php?p=238312#p238312 + Zweq's next post

Post by **Abula** » 31 Mar 2018, 09:45

Haruhi wrote: ↑31 Mar 2018, 05:16"timeline of tools for improving in elma" thread.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9777

So hourglass enables you to save/load and step a frame by frame.

The timeline of (modern) cheat tools is something like:

2003-01-17: Hibernatus made the first SL and published this info in #across but not the patch.
2004-07-12: autoplay discussed in private forum
2004-08-05: DarMoeD was caught
...
2011-04-01: 32tt project
2011-06-10: Hourglass information is posted in Mopolauta
2011-06-17: Smibu published SL

And some people have used SL for style finding since ... we don't know. Who got the pro tools first!? Russians or a flying Finn? This is like in real sport, maximing everything

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 31 Mar 2018, 13:48

hibernatus tool was also "autoplay" - that means every try you had to reply from the beginning and you could take over any time

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 31 Mar 2018, 13:50

Abula wrote: ↑31 Mar 2018, 09:43 viewtopic.php?p=179912#p179912
viewtopic.php?p=238312#p238312 + Zweq's next post

fps limiter sets the exact limit - not vsync off/on

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 31 Mar 2018, 14:12

Abula wrote: ↑31 Mar 2018, 09:45 Who got the pro tools first!? Russians or a flying Finn? This is like in real sport, maximing everything

32tt project starting in june 2010 (let's say after table 313 on 23.6.2010) and smibu's tools were published 18.6.2011 (table 335). I'm quite sure general TAS tools were around much earlier.

I don't think it led to any style finding at the beginning (or at least the styles did not seem possible without sl). Looking at the tables, during that year Zweq drove wrs in turnaround (not sure if that wasn't before), ramp frenzy, tunnel terror, bumpy journey, o&u, twinpeaks and framework. Out of this list only tunnel terror was the new style found in sl. Possibly o&u, if it counts as a new style, but that wasn't beaten since that either.

edit: the first version of hourglass, the software used to do first TAS runs, has been released in november 2009 ( http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8750 ). I has been used my anpdad (and kazan?) before other cheating tools were made public.

edit2: on the first page of that topic there is a comment : "This sounds fantastic, I can't wait for when this is all stable. Dying to see a TAS of Elastomania

"

Post by **Abula** » 31 Mar 2018, 17:17

Oh, my bad (vsync - fps limiter)! I seem to get blind with these mirthless terms.

Okay, so Tunnel
Okay, so you mean that Tunnel Terror #315 (2010-08-28) is probably the first WR by Zweq using SL for style finding? This is mega interesting info, thanks! The image is getting clearer.

You don't have any information of no one else using SL before that, ok.

Really cool finding the TAS forum too!

I need to rewrite the SL chapter fourth time now

. It's really remarkable topic which has reshaped the image of the whole phenomenon in my mind. I just finished the conclusion chapter but hold your horses, lots of other text are still unwritten. But it shouldn't take many weeks anymore.

Post by **Abula** » 31 Mar 2018, 17:20

Can you explain how to hell you can play with autoplay? It sounds like impossible amount of work to play long levels like DarMoeD did and even new WCup levels etc. And he couldn't use the old WR replays datafiles because it would have looked 100 % same?

Would be cool to have some introductionary video created for example in a meeting or somewhere how to make these pro recs using SL or other patches. It sounds like a totally new way of playing.

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 31 Mar 2018, 19:20

Abula wrote: ↑31 Mar 2018, 17:20It sounds like impossible amount of work to play long levels like DarMoeD did and even new WCup levels etc.

less than playing normally
darmoed was quite decent, i guess he would get normal wrs too, if he didnt cheat

Way before 32tt project, there were many wrs beaten and new styles found with darmoed's autoplay in russian/ukrainen community - most recs driven by C0C0k (or how was his nick spelled). For example o&u, downhill, haircut. Recs are probably somewhere on youtube.

Post by **Abula** » 31 Mar 2018, 19:35

milagros wrote: ↑31 Mar 2018, 19:20Way before 32tt project, there were many wrs beaten and new styles found with darmoed's autoplay in russian/ukrainen community - most recs driven by C0C0k (or how was his nick spelled). For example o&u, downhill, haircut. Recs are probably somewhere on youtube.

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E408mSHDM4 part 1
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EryrDPBd4oY part 2

This? I have always wondered what this AVR means? Assisted video recorder? Audio/Video receiver?

Video published in 2009-10-01. Hourglass 2019-11-07.

Downhill 42,97 there. Hot stuff!

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 31 Mar 2018, 20:03

it was done with darmoed's autoplay