Killing animals
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Killing animals
One topic I find extremely difficult to discuss is animal killing. Specifically, the whole problem of which ones can be killed and which ones should be spared. It seems so tricky to figure out a good criteria. The intelligence criteria doesn't quite work so far since pigs are a lot smarter than some species we are trying to preserve. Killing only when it's necessary for survival and health seems like a decent idea, but it's not easy to decide which things we absolutely need and which can be replaced with human-made stuff (hello vegans). It's so strange how the values depend a lot on the culture and its history. Also for some reason pity for fluffy animals is a lot stronger than pity for insects or small things in the sea. And apparently species become more valuable when they are endangered, which is kind of anthropocentric I think. It's like we want to keep them so that they can continue entertaining us at the zoo and we're interested in saving them so that we can feel good about ourselves or something. It's weird. Pretty much the only thing I can agree on with most people is that we should be trying to kill less and less. It's hard for me to make a more definite statement without introducing a crapload of contradictions ("if that isn't okay, why is this okay?" and so on). The whole problem is very cynical and reminds me of questions like "the lifeboat can only take 5 passengers but you have 6, who do you throw in the sea?". It's like there are no good answers.
So, uh, any thoughts on the matter?
So, uh, any thoughts on the matter?
Re: Killing animals
so if human meat was good you would permit the killing of humans? soon we will have lab grown meat that is more economical and ecological so killing animals for meat will be thing of the past, thats what im hoping for at least. i eat meat but i will be first to admit it is unethical
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Re: Killing animals
Yeah I've thought about that as well, if a fly bothers you and you kill it no one will think of it, if the same happens with a kitten people will look very strange at you, if not call the authorities. I don't know what my point is, but it's weird to think of where the limit is.
Re: Killing animals
vegan is ok because gofe is a plant
Re: Killing animals
in world we have liek 98% hypocrisy 2% logic. get over it already and laugh at it on a daily basis. i cannot be fucking serious anymore
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Re: Killing animals
unfortunately, human meat tastes a beat sweetVermin Supreme wrote:so if human meat was good you would permit the killing of humans?
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Re: Killing animals
they also rape and cannibalize each other, i dont think that is very good argument...
Re: Killing animals
Most of them don't, but yeah, there are some thugs everywhere. Even among animals!Vermin Supreme wrote:they also rape and cannibalize each other, i dont think that is very good argument...
Re: Killing animals
I like meat. I wont stop eating meat. I can kill animal to get meat.
Re: Killing animals
Talking about very good arguments, those two that jappe wrote were worst that ive seen in while.Vermin Supreme wrote:so if human meat was good you would permit the killing of humans? they also rape and cannibalize each other, i dont think that is very good argument...
Re: Killing animals
nice to hear since none of them were my arguments and were examples of the logic presented by "pro-meat" mans of this thread
Re: Killing animals
Imo it's very culturally-bound thing.
If somewhere it's normal to kill and eat dogs, ok, no problem. Same with horses, cats, or any other animal basically, up to spiders and similar.
Question is what about endangered species.
If somewhere it's normal to kill and eat dogs, ok, no problem. Same with horses, cats, or any other animal basically, up to spiders and similar.
Question is what about endangered species.
Re: Killing animals
The easy answer to this question is: go vegan.
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Re: Killing animals
Factory farming conditions for meat production are indefensible. It has to go, at least gradually as other options become more viable for masses.
Hunting for your meat is much, much, much more humane as you kill a mature animal that's lived a full life and needs to be done anyway in many cases to control wild populations and in the case of US hunter permits actually raise billions for wildlife preservation and such, having possibly a larger positive impact than all the vegans. At some point I want to also get into hunting and to possibly raise my own chickens.
Homie Joe has good points as well:
Hunting for your meat is much, much, much more humane as you kill a mature animal that's lived a full life and needs to be done anyway in many cases to control wild populations and in the case of US hunter permits actually raise billions for wildlife preservation and such, having possibly a larger positive impact than all the vegans. At some point I want to also get into hunting and to possibly raise my own chickens.
Homie Joe has good points as well:
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Re: Killing animals
tl;dr
In today's society even fucking retards have the same humans rights as you, so why shouldn't animals? Because animals serve the purpose to the pleasure of your daily life, and therefore it's okay to treat them as objectified factories.
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I'd say the question boils down to two points:
When it comes to health, there is no need to consume any animal products for most people. Then there is the environment issue too, where factory farming has a very heavy impact.
The "humane killing" argument doesn't really hold though. How many human lives would you have to save in order to be morally okay with then hunting a few of them down? And to Joe Rogan, is it okay to kill people just because they had rough lives? And since animals kill other animals, it's okay to kill them? Humans do kill other humans, so then is it okay to kill them? Or, if humans have good meat it's okay to kill them?
None of these reasons make sense. The real reason is that ppl think it's okay to kill and torture animals, even for mundane things like personal style or gastronomic taste. (Even if there will be new, healthier, vegan options, most people would prefer to go on with this harm.)
There is another case too, where animals bother you, such as flies or ants moving into your home, or mosquitos bothering the fuck out of you or killing you with disease. In this case if they bother you you have the right to defend yourself. Just like you have the right to defend yourself if a human breaks into your home or attacks you.
In today's society even fucking retards have the same humans rights as you, so why shouldn't animals? Because animals serve the purpose to the pleasure of your daily life, and therefore it's okay to treat them as objectified factories.
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I'd say the question boils down to two points:
- to what extent is it justifiable to harm animals
- how much are you ready to change your lifestyle to cause less harm
When it comes to health, there is no need to consume any animal products for most people. Then there is the environment issue too, where factory farming has a very heavy impact.
The "humane killing" argument doesn't really hold though. How many human lives would you have to save in order to be morally okay with then hunting a few of them down? And to Joe Rogan, is it okay to kill people just because they had rough lives? And since animals kill other animals, it's okay to kill them? Humans do kill other humans, so then is it okay to kill them? Or, if humans have good meat it's okay to kill them?
None of these reasons make sense. The real reason is that ppl think it's okay to kill and torture animals, even for mundane things like personal style or gastronomic taste. (Even if there will be new, healthier, vegan options, most people would prefer to go on with this harm.)
There is another case too, where animals bother you, such as flies or ants moving into your home, or mosquitos bothering the fuck out of you or killing you with disease. In this case if they bother you you have the right to defend yourself. Just like you have the right to defend yourself if a human breaks into your home or attacks you.
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Re: Killing animals
The easy answer of mine is that i don't fucking care where my meal came from.The easy answer to this question is: go vegan.
I like dogs and would not eat dog meat imo, wouldn't neither eat coala and cat meats, also human cuz illegal imo. Pretty sure that's all. Any other meat, eggs, milks and surstromming is very good, you can send me if have, especially i want to try out surstromming ty
EDIT: I meant pandas, not coalas - sorry australian bros haru and akb!!
Re: Killing animals
Current mass-produced meat industry is bad for several reasons. Here are a few:
1. It's fucking cruel to subject these animals to such horrendous conditions, regardless of intelligence. Just because something is less intelligent than you doesn't mean you have the right to torture it.
2. The combination of little to no movement, unsanitary surroundings, crap feed and a life composed entrely of stress leads to poor meat quality. It gets dry, watery (yes both dry and watery), bland and chewy. Compare the cheapest cut of chicken you can to the most expensive cut, it doesn't even taste like the same animal.
3. The meat industry goes through so much antibiotics trying to keep the animals alive in unlivable conditions, and because of this the antibiotics seep into all our food, making bacteria immune to it and rendering it useless. All the time thousands of scientists are researching new types of antibiotics to keep up, but soon we will reach a point where all bacteria is immune to all antibiotics, and then we shall welcome back all the old classic plagues and diseases we are too young to remember.
I like meat, but like J2 said I'm looking forward to a time when it can be grown directly. Until that time we have to work towards sustainable and responsible farming. If not for the sake of the animals, but just for the sake of us.
1. It's fucking cruel to subject these animals to such horrendous conditions, regardless of intelligence. Just because something is less intelligent than you doesn't mean you have the right to torture it.
2. The combination of little to no movement, unsanitary surroundings, crap feed and a life composed entrely of stress leads to poor meat quality. It gets dry, watery (yes both dry and watery), bland and chewy. Compare the cheapest cut of chicken you can to the most expensive cut, it doesn't even taste like the same animal.
3. The meat industry goes through so much antibiotics trying to keep the animals alive in unlivable conditions, and because of this the antibiotics seep into all our food, making bacteria immune to it and rendering it useless. All the time thousands of scientists are researching new types of antibiotics to keep up, but soon we will reach a point where all bacteria is immune to all antibiotics, and then we shall welcome back all the old classic plagues and diseases we are too young to remember.
I like meat, but like J2 said I'm looking forward to a time when it can be grown directly. Until that time we have to work towards sustainable and responsible farming. If not for the sake of the animals, but just for the sake of us.
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<nick-o-matic> niec
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Re: Killing animals
I completely agree with you Ruben, just have one question regarding this:
What are your foundations for such claim?Ruben wrote:1. It's fucking cruel to subject these animals to such horrendous conditions, regardless of intelligence. Just because something is less intelligent than you doesn't mean you have the right to torture it.
Re: Killing animals
Why don't you go ask your local priest if you should torture animals, seeing as they're lesser beings and all.Tigro wrote:I completely agree with you Ruben, just have one question regarding this:What are your foundations for such claim?Ruben wrote:1. It's fucking cruel to subject these animals to such horrendous conditions, regardless of intelligence. Just because something is less intelligent than you doesn't mean you have the right to torture it.
<veezay> antti also gonna get stabbed later this month
<nick-o-matic> niec
My fake plants died because I did not pretend to water them.
<nick-o-matic> niec
My fake plants died because I did not pretend to water them.
Re: Killing animals
Ruben wrote:Why don't you go ask your local priest if you should torture animals, seeing as they're lesser beings and all.
pls shove that attitude up your ass. I kindly asked you a question.Tigro wrote:I completely agree with you Ruben, just have one question regarding this
Re: Killing animals
And by kindly asking me that question you also implied that you don't understand why torturing animals is bad. Do you also kindly torture animals?Tigro wrote:Ruben wrote:Why don't you go ask your local priest if you should torture animals, seeing as they're lesser beings and all.pls shove that attitude up your ass. I kindly asked you a question.Tigro wrote:I completely agree with you Ruben, just have one question regarding this
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<nick-o-matic> niec
My fake plants died because I did not pretend to water them.
<nick-o-matic> niec
My fake plants died because I did not pretend to water them.
Re: Killing animals
He didn't imply that. He was just wondering what are your reasons. Maybe he has his reasons as well and wants to compare them.
Re: Killing animals
I'm sorry kuchi, but "What are your foundations for such claim?" very strongly implies disagreement with said claim.
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Re: Killing animals
Should you torture animals because they are less intelligent?
If so, then more intelligent humans should torture less intelligent ones? In other words you should torture your own children and your own pets?
Maybe for a child it's hard to understand why you shouldn't torture. But if you care about your younger ones or your pets, it shouldn't be that hard. Just think how you would like it if they were tortured by someone.
If so, then more intelligent humans should torture less intelligent ones? In other words you should torture your own children and your own pets?
Maybe for a child it's hard to understand why you shouldn't torture. But if you care about your younger ones or your pets, it shouldn't be that hard. Just think how you would like it if they were tortured by someone.
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Re: Killing animals
I didn't imply anything. And just exactly for the possibility that some people might find it *implying*, I explicitly said I agree with you. So quit your bullshit.
Kuchi is obviously the only one to get that.
People don't even have reading comprehension these days.
With this implying approach you can twist anything anyone says.
Kuchi is obviously the only one to get that.
People don't even have reading comprehension these days.
With this implying approach you can twist anything anyone says.
Re: Killing animals
If your question didn't imply anything, then why do you suggest Ruben's question implied anything about his attitude?
Oh I get it. You wrote "People don't even have reading comprehension these days." and that includes you as well. If it didn't, you would be implying that you are not a human.
Oh I get it. You wrote "People don't even have reading comprehension these days." and that includes you as well. If it didn't, you would be implying that you are not a human.
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Re: Killing animals
When the last ten posts is about what people mean or didn't mean, you know they're out of arguments and should maybe just let it go.