elma NAB league

ribot · Post by **ribot** » 11 Jan 2011, 21:51

EDITED!
Who wants to help organize the elma league 2011? Who can challange zweq? Does he still have the strength?

Now is the 10 year anniversary of the (non-existing) elma league! If you want to help organize it, and make the guidelines, i have set up a new kind of forum/chat/twitter/wiki about it here: http://www.intuit-symbiosis.org/elma/league/

The league is set up in such a way that players battle head on head, one pro against another. Different players in one division all meet eachother, and score points..just like in footballl or hockey. This is a bit different from normal battles, because here one player wins and one player looses. It is very tough competition.

What you do there is write your ideas with #tags. If you have an idea about level making you can write as such #levelmaking: bla bla bla... this way the different ideas will be organized more easily...both for readers, writers, and administrators

pawq · Post by **pawq** » 11 Jan 2011, 22:02

This is da thread ribot!

I think the idea is maximum indeed, but surely needs proper organisation... maybe could be organised just as a regular cup by regular non-mopo kuskis? :)

Post by **SveinR** » 11 Jan 2011, 22:05

Elasto Mania League was indeed one of the best competitions ever. Such a shame that it ended before even the first season was finished... :x

ribot · Post by **ribot** » 11 Jan 2011, 22:06

ye it's definitely not owned by mopocrew.. but maybe they could agree to play battles between two individuals...then someone could make the league with divisions... not so hard to think of the concept... like maybe villej would like to make it

Post by **SveinR** » 11 Jan 2011, 23:59

Yeah having it be battle-based instead of week-long event based could make it both easier to organize and easier to participate in. At least it wouldn't be so time-consuming. Good idea!

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 12 Jan 2011, 03:39

Sounds cool.

Ramone · Post by **Ramone** » 12 Jan 2011, 09:57

if this is happening let me know, Id be happy to make levels for it. since this takes so much more levels than a normal cup. But I would need to know this abit in advance then.

Post by **Abula** » 12 Jan 2011, 14:18

Elma League, as EML organized it back then, was a cool contest definately. With some coding skills maintaining such should be a lot easier nowadays. Hopefully someone could start doing it.

Juish · Post by **Juish** » 13 Jan 2011, 00:29

I could help design levels as well.

Bismuth · Post by **Bismuth** » 13 Jan 2011, 05:37

I suggest a major league and a minor league, I'd be in the minors with zworqy

Post by **SveinR** » 13 Jan 2011, 07:47

Bismuth wrote:I suggest a major league and a minor league, I'd be in the minors with zworqy

There were like 6 different divisions. Best guys obviously in 1st division, and so on. I think there were about 8 people in each division. And so the idea was the winners would get promoted to next division, and the losers relegated to the previous division, at the end of each season.

ribot · Post by **ribot** » 13 Jan 2011, 12:25

well it depends on who registers...

i have made a registration form now:
http://www.intuit-symbiosis.org/elma/league

basically the whole thing can be automated by spying eol's website i suppose.

Post by **SveinR** » 13 Jan 2011, 12:38

Sounds good. Some comments:

Around 8-12 in one division, all meet eachother twice, getting points similar to hockey/football.

Is it really necessary to meet each player twice? It's not like there are any "home advantages", like in football and other real-life sports.

Probably the matches can be held on eol, with audience.

Is this easy to do? The players should not be able to see each other, but it would be nice if others could spectate... One could get the problem of having two people in one room, where one plays and the other spies on behalf of the other...

ribot · Post by **ribot** » 13 Jan 2011, 13:44

SveinR wrote:Sounds good. Some comments:
Around 8-12 in one division, all meet eachother twice, getting points similar to hockey/football.
Is it really necessary to meet each player twice? It's not like there are any "home advantages", like in football and other real-life sports.

Probably the matches can be held on eol, with audience.
Is this easy to do? The players should not be able to see each other, but it would be nice if others could spectate... One could get the problem of having two people in one room, where one plays and the other spies on behalf of the other...

it's not really necessary to meet twice...i just thought it'd be nice like that.

but as for audience..i think it's better if no one will see when they are actually playing..even hiding times, so that ppl cannot know if some hard style has been made..but imagine zweq vs kazan 10 minute battle... no one knows any times at all...but you can see the level and just wait in anticipation... and talk on irc and stuff....

note that all games will be played one day weekly...so in a league of 8 players the whole season would be 7 or 14 weeks... there will be like a prime time for the battles, like top division plays 19.00-20.00..something like that

Post by **SveinR** » 13 Jan 2011, 14:14

ribot wrote:note that all games will be played one day weekly...so in a league of 8 players the whole season would be 7 or 14 weeks... there will be like a prime time for the battles, like top division plays 19.00-20.00..something like that

Would be good. But one should also try to accommodate people's schedules, so if someone is unable to play a match at a given time or date, it should be possible to have that match at another time.

J-sim · Post by **J-sim** » 13 Jan 2011, 14:45

this could be da bomb.

btw it's not posible to register a nick with special characters, meaning i can't register with my eol nick J-sim because of the dash

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 13 Jan 2011, 14:50

Jdashsim

J-sim · Post by **J-sim** » 13 Jan 2011, 14:51

that should be my new nick. can abula fix that straight away!?

ribot · Post by **ribot** » 13 Jan 2011, 17:16

try again j-sim

Post by **SveinR** » 13 Jan 2011, 20:04

Just an idea - you mention scores like in football, where they get 3 points for a win, 1 for a draw and 0 for a loss. Getting a draw wouldn't be possible in an elma battle, but how about this: If you play two matches against each player, you could get 3 points if you won both matches, 1 point for one loss and one win, and 0 points for losing both. What do you think? I'm not really sure what I think myself.

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 13 Jan 2011, 20:43

SveinR wrote:Getting a draw wouldn't be possible in an elma battle

SveinR wrote:1 point for one loss and one draw

SveinR wrote:What do you think?

I think your system is rather flawed, my friend. Paradoxical at best.

Post by **SveinR** » 13 Jan 2011, 21:18

Indeed. Fixed.

ribot · Post by **ribot** » 14 Jan 2011, 22:46

maybe it could be an idea... do you think it would make ppl try harder to win?

Post by **SveinR** » 15 Jan 2011, 00:44

Not sure... if you lose the first match against someone, your incentive to win the next one might not be so high as there would only be 1 point to gain from it. But at the same time, it would be a lot to gain from winning both matches.

Here's an example to see how the system could work out in practice:
The division consists of Zweq, Markku, ribot and SveinR.

Zweq and Markku draw, Zweq draws with ribot and draws with SveinR.
Markku and Zweq draw, Markku loses both matches against ribot and beats SveinR in both matches.

Result:
Zweq has 3 battle wins and 3 battle losses, and gains 3 points.
Markku also has 3 battle wins and 3 battle losses, but he gains 4 points.

The question then becomes, is Markku's performance worthy of more points?

I guess it's all rather pointless, since there are no strategies involved to speak of. One always plays to win, you can't defend your way into a battle win.

analcactus · Post by **analcactus** » 15 Jan 2011, 08:54

Then if real draw (the same times in battle) happens it should be encrypted like win of each player!

Post by **SveinR** » 15 Jan 2011, 14:10

Well real draw is virtually impossible - the one who gets the time first is the winner.

analcactus · Post by **analcactus** » 15 Jan 2011, 22:21

I hope there're not be small hoyla levels where the same times are very common. But i vote for additional balle if the real draw happens.

pawq · Post by **pawq** » 15 Jan 2011, 22:33

analcactus wrote:I hope there're not be small hoyla levels where the same times are very common. But i vote for additional balle if the real draw happens.

What do you mean by the real draw? Same times I suppose? If so, I agree with you :)

analcactus · Post by **analcactus** » 15 Jan 2011, 23:56

ye, i'm drunken finally to manage my thoughts very clearly
yes, i meant both duellers have the same times in the end of battle

Bismuth · Post by **Bismuth** » 16 Jan 2011, 05:07

I so hope this is going to happen, I'm definitely joining

ribot · Post by **ribot** » 16 Jan 2011, 10:41

updated the rules now:
http://www.intuit-symbiosis.org/elma/league

please tell your feedback about them...

analcactus · Post by **analcactus** » 16 Jan 2011, 11:19

Imo bad ratio example!
Cause it's not clear how to count it, i explain: in your example you have times x=1034 and y=1000 and a=103.4 and b=96.6 percents ratio. So, 1st ratio calculating is clear: a=x/y. But in your example occasionally a+b=200 and i'm not sure what way you used to calculate the second. 1) b=y/x or 2) b=200-a ? Look, if we go with times x=15.00 and y=10.00, ratio a=150, 1) b=0.66 or 2) b=0.5
dunno

Post by **SveinR** » 16 Jan 2011, 19:16

I don't really see the need for that complicated points system. Better to just keep it simple, where a win is a win and a loss is a loss.

ribot · Post by **ribot** » 16 Jan 2011, 22:02

change: i thought it makes more sense like this:
if you win you get +% and if you lose you get -%... like this:
winner "ratio": loser time / winner time - 100%
loser "ratio": - winner "ratio"

examples:
a gets 15 and b gets 10: a gets -50% and b gets 50%
a gets 40 and c gets 10: a gets -300% and c gets 300%
a's displayed ratio is the avg: (-50-300)/2 = -175%

of course these are rather extreme examples..normal ratio in a game maybe is 1% or so

analcactus · Post by **analcactus** » 16 Jan 2011, 22:58

Pardon, we dont need the losers' ratio then, cause they gain 0 points constantly.
Then we have: winner gains 1x(loser's time/winner's time) points and loser gains 0 points. Right?

Kopaka · Post by **Kopaka** » 16 Jan 2011, 23:05

So that means it worth more to win against a bad player? (cus you'll win bigger against such probably)

J-sim · Post by **J-sim** » 16 Jan 2011, 23:51

yes, but everyone in one league is playing everyone right? i think the ratio system is a pretty fair way to settle a points tie.

Post by **SveinR** » 17 Jan 2011, 00:07

Ok, if it's just to settle a points tie then it's ok.

Bismuth · Post by **Bismuth** » 17 Jan 2011, 03:54

like a GF-GA would settle a tie in a sport's league I guess

Post by **SveinR** » 19 Jan 2011, 15:43

If it's definite that this will happen, it should probably be advertised on Moposite soon. What are your ideas for the qualifying round, at what time and how will it take place?

ribot · Post by **ribot** » 19 Jan 2011, 23:00

it's written there, qualification on first sunday in february...24 hrs the whole day CET...i thought i will collect one level each from the level designer and then choose the most appropriate one as the qualification level...then divide into appropriate divisions depending on how many players are playing, strictly dividing the players according to who get better results in the qualifying round

ribot · Post by **ribot** » 22 Jan 2011, 11:30

level makers can now submit their qualification level levels (levels).
http://www.intuit-symbiosis.org/elma/league/

onlainari · Post by **onlainari** » 6 Feb 2011, 18:32

90 minutes for the leagues qualification round. It is a one hour event so everyone chop chop..

If you're on IRC net, join #elmaleague

pawq · Post by **pawq** » 6 Feb 2011, 21:03

oh damee, ram is 1.07s faster than me, in my best fail i was 1s ahead of the pr at 3rd apple :D and it was even before i figured out that piping was faster :/ grattis! yay im in group with karlis o/

Fredrik · Post by **Fredrik** » 6 Feb 2011, 22:16

Fak, I missed qualification! Was at gfs house all day

what will happen to me then?

snajdig · Post by **snajdig** » 6 Feb 2011, 23:06

Fredrik wrote:Fak, I missed qualification! Was at gfs house all day what will happen to me then?

me too missed, it's mean we wont' play unfortunatelly........

, ..

i didn't know about this cup/league still today.....

Bismuth · Post by **Bismuth** » 7 Feb 2011, 00:01

FUCKKK we had to upload the time on the site... And I didn't even save rec. Wow. I guess the time on EOL site won't work...

anyway I'm like last so could you please just let me in the last group?

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 7 Feb 2011, 00:18

I can never understand how people can be so blind and not read the rules etc o,o

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 7 Feb 2011, 00:30

canadian league that way ->

Bismuth · Post by **Bismuth** » 7 Feb 2011, 00:39

Sorry but I learned when the qualifying round was 10 minutes before its end. So please give me a break.