radim's levelmaker - new dimension on levelmaking

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onlainari
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radim's levelmaker - new dimension on levelmaking

Post by onlainari » 13 Apr 2003, 09:05

http://www.fi.muni.cz/~xrehurek/elma/VectRast.html

link to FAQ + .net program and vectrast prog above.

Ok. Radim made a level converter,that can convert bitmaps(bmp,png) images to levels!! However, the images need to include only a few colors. I have now experienced it with black,white and couple other colors on image succesfully. But as you know levels have only ground and air so basically just 2 colors allowed.

To run radim's program properly,you need a DOTNET installed on your PC. It installs some DLL etc files to your system,and you can download it here: http://www.fi.muni.cz/~xrehurek/gomoku/ (dotnetredist.exe) 19mb

Here you can download the radim's program(direct link): http://www.fi.muni.cz/~xrehurek/elma/vectrast.zip

Download here my 4 levels that I have made with help of radims bitmap converter: www.kolumbus.fi/ensiputkitus/onla001002.zip

The program includes 3 bat files that you use to convert files and vectrast.exe. Run the vectrast.exe before your first use.

bmp2lev.bat: That file includes this text (in my version currently) if you view it in notepad or hexeditor -> vectrast.exe -loadbmp outbn.bmp -scale 9 9 -savelev outlev.lev >> log.txt

so you have to edit the converter (bat) if you don't want to rename your .bmp files too often ETC. And you can edit the scale. (9 9) Normally it is (1 1),but I just recently made a level out of small bmp file. So it allows you to resize,stretch the levels in this program. Other way to resize your levels is simply to use lev2bmp.bat to create a bmp from your level and then using photoshop or other painting program to resize them.

lev2lev.bat can simply resize your level without a need of using bmp files. That program also can flip and mirror your levels. Just open .bat in notepad or hexeditor to see the details.

OBS: When I downloaded the prog bmp2lev.bat and lev2bmp.bat didn't have " >> log.txt" in the end of file. You might need it ,because otherwise you don't see your errors. bmp2lev.bat gives often error. For example if your level goes out of bounds or it exceeds the number of available polygons,however the program didn't tell me that happened,but you just use your own brains. But the log file came very handy for me on bmp2lev,as it gave me error like this loading in bitmap outbm.bmp.
creating polygons.
error vectorizing the bitmap: illegal edge configuration at pixel [87, 118]
After that I can move my pointer in paint to see where in that BMP picture the file can't convert.

You can make quite nicze circles etc with paint,no need other progs necessarily.

Then one more thing. When trying to convert bigger resolution files,you might easily exceed the polygon maximum ,cuz it is so sharpy everywhea yea yea. Check out that "porn warm up" level to see. I enlarged the normal warm up with photoshop and it got out of hands somehow I guess ,because there are lots of small zigzaging.

So if you have 1 1 scale in bmp2lev.bat and a big bmp file,it might meet the limits easy and error occurs. Big scale on small bmp is safer. I used small scale 1 1 or 2 2 on "porn warm up" and "onla001". And 9 9 scale on 254x257 resolution image ,that was onla002. Then the last level in my ZIP file "headb40a.lev" I used lev2lev and chose 40 as angle to rotate the level. Higher than 40 will equal an error,because that level file would rotate out of bounds. You can see it if you watch headbanger level in elma's editor. If you rotate it too mcuh,it would go outta boundaries.
So if you would try to make flat track to go downhill,it would say error,because the level is made in the bottom of the file kinda. You need to first edit the level in elma editor to be higher(if possible) I haven't checked if flat track really is in the bottom..

OK,I wrote this because there wasn't any help file in the pack. Radim told me how to do it and I forward it here a bit..

This is good tool for making some battle levels and making some great levels with more precise objects.
Last edited by onlainari on 13 Apr 2003, 19:57, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by Toaster » 13 Apr 2003, 18:46

I can't download vectrast.zip :(

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Arg!

Post by Loz » 13 Apr 2003, 20:52

nice work, stupid microsoft
couldnt you just include the 1 recuired .dll file?
i hate it when i find there is a file that is over the reasonable size limit for 56k modems, e.g. the microsoft dotnet framework
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Post by MopoGirl » 13 Apr 2003, 22:37

sounds really good, but a little too complicated for me.

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Post by zworqy » 14 Apr 2003, 22:24

WOW, This is the Elma program of the year! Lucky me I already had DOT.NET. One thing though: The lev2lev function doesn't seem to work.

When I try to run a modified level in Elma, this is the error I get:

Code: Select all

topol::topol-ban kerekszam <= 0!
Seems like Radim forgot to check whether some variable was <= 0.
I have tried different settings but nothing works.
<Fihlvein> another case of zworqy-is-always-right closed i guess
<yoosef> zworqy doesnt suck at anything

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Post by MopoGirl » 15 Apr 2003, 11:56

hey you had your time bart, now let the noobs have some fun :)

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Post by ThanaTos » 15 Apr 2003, 12:30

Could someone tell me how to do this, i didn't understand what i had to do to make a lev (yeah i know i'm a complete comp dummy), on ly that you had to draw a pic with only two dif. colours
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Post by Chris Penrose » 15 Apr 2003, 14:33

I keep getting "File creation error" :/
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Post by eL » 15 Apr 2003, 18:58

phew, this lame noob CP won't win 'em :D :D :D
The fact that bob isn't banned proves that even Abula makes mistakes...
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Re: radim's levelmaker - new dimension on levelmaking

Post by zworqy » 15 Apr 2003, 22:05

onlainari wrote:So if you would try to make flat track to go downhill,it would say error, because the level is made in the bottom of the file kinda. You need to first edit the level in elma editor to be higher(if possible) I haven't checked if flat track really is in the bottom..
You can't say that a level is made "in the bottom". The only thing that determines the size is th maximum width and height of the level.
(If you create a small level to the far left in zoom 1.0, you can zoom in and then zoom out to get the level in the center. Then you can move the level to the left again. This can be repeated infinitely)
<Fihlvein> another case of zworqy-is-always-right closed i guess
<yoosef> zworqy doesnt suck at anything

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Post by magicman » 15 Apr 2003, 23:30

BarTek wrote:Shiit

- Elma just became more boring now!
- Even noobs can win LOM now!

hmmm ye... good point..
must be some req. on the LOMers now :P (hope they can check if they used this program or something :P
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Post by MagnusB » 16 Apr 2003, 00:14

Noobs can't win LOM because of this program, since it makes it easier for everybody.

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Post by eL » 16 Apr 2003, 09:25

i suggest we ban this program
The fact that bob isn't banned proves that even Abula makes mistakes...
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Post by Mick » 16 Apr 2003, 11:34

wtf are you guys talking about. have you not read the "new stuff in elma 2" or whatever topic? one of the main points is a better editor so you can make real circles and rectangles. you ow have this opportunity and you are bagging it. make up your mind ffs.

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Post by insane guy » 16 Apr 2003, 12:06

ermmm....
i dont like this, too.... allthough it seems really funny, im too lazy to do all that shit to get -1000nds of vertexes, and these things really look like if they were made of A LOT of vertexes....


and by the way: you all need a tool to make real circles ond rectangles????

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Post by Abula » 16 Apr 2003, 14:08

Mick: maybe those aren't same guys there and here.

My opinion: this sounds too complicated so I don't bother to test but I don't like the idea.
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Post by dz » 16 Apr 2003, 16:59

imports bmps, requires external dll's, thats not in harmony with the simplicity of elma man

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Post by eL » 16 Apr 2003, 18:50

this may sound shocking and weird to you, Mick, but it's elma 1.11!
The fact that bob isn't banned proves that even Abula makes mistakes...
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Post by Jonas » 16 Apr 2003, 21:17

Sounds really boring....why would anyone make such a complicated and stupis program...
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Post by zworqy » 16 Apr 2003, 22:03

All you guys don't know what you're talking about... this program is VERY simple. If you've ever started a DOS program you shouldn't have any problems with running this program.
<Fihlvein> another case of zworqy-is-always-right closed i guess
<yoosef> zworqy doesnt suck at anything

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Post by Chris Penrose » 16 Apr 2003, 22:56

Er.. no. Simple would be an executable program with drop-down menus and stuff like the ElmaConf.exe for hib's patch.
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Post by onlainari » 17 Apr 2003, 07:01

prog is easy to use... don't read my mixed up text...read only the first URL in my post :)

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Post by petsen » 17 Apr 2003, 09:50

I saw Jsim play with the new editor, and its really cool and easier too use....

i say thumbs up
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Post by Kopaka » 18 Apr 2003, 08:29

ye, it's really easy to use, I just saw one problem when I was trying to make lev with it; you can't see how big it all will be.... :(

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Post by Mick » 18 Apr 2003, 09:24

eL wrote:this may sound shocking and weird to you, Mick, but it's elma 1.11!
what? i dont get the reason for that post.

btw: just found this:
eL wrote:cool editor!!!
that was in the "If you could choose one new feature.." topic

although i do admit ive never seen bartek complain about the editor. in fact i think he likes it the way it is.
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Post by insane guy » 18 Apr 2003, 11:48

why not?
since i know how to change the direction of a vertex, i have no serious problems with it

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Post by eL » 18 Apr 2003, 12:25

cool editor means:
1) Copying, cutting, moving polygons
2) Ability to see the pictures and the polygons as if you are playing
3) Making shapes (circles, squares etc)
4) NORMAL HELP!
The fact that bob isn't banned proves that even Abula makes mistakes...
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Post by Antz » 18 Apr 2003, 21:39

i think this program is really great. there's tons of usefull possibilities with it, and it's really simple to use. i haven't done any of the rotating or stuff, just imported bitmaps into .lev files.

true, it does make the making of intricate objects a lot easier, but so what? visuality is only 1/3 of the LOM score.

i've done several levels with it already, e.g story, antz74, antz75, antz78, antz79 and antz80 none of these would have been easy to make, some impossible, with normal editor. btw in "the horse" level u can well notice a problem in the program. pixels showing. there is much work you have to do to get level ready, it's not a click-n-play.

i think we should consider this program as a possibility rather than a threat. it's still the same rules for everyone.
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Post by MagnusB » 18 Apr 2003, 22:35

In my opinion, this program has made all the tasks that used to be really tedious and boring much easier, but not taken away the skill from making really good levels. Surely it can't be bad that the average quality of levels is raised?

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Post by zworqy » 18 Apr 2003, 23:02

BarTek wrote:1. To be a good levmaker you need to:

- put time and effort in your level
- use your artistic skills to build up a object in small details


With this program the skilled who earned their level making ability trough the months (years?) of training can now be considerd as obselete. Beginners can produce as good object as details as the skilled would do with normal editor. This means that old levels with old standards will be forgotten.

Also small details and pictures need time and effort, this shit program can do the work in seconds. You thinked i used drawings when making the adventure level? hell no, i solved the paths and ways by hard editing and LOT of time.

Levelmaking is not less similar then hoyling. Hey why not make a program that drives the bike for you as well since we are in this auto era blaah.
The point of this program is NOT to make complete levels from bitmaps.
The point is to make rough outlines of something that eventually will be a level. You still need to edit the "level" A LOT to make it useful, like making sure that all gaps are possible to jump over, and fine tuning angles etc. not to mention adding apples and pictures.
<Fihlvein> another case of zworqy-is-always-right closed i guess
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Post by insane guy » 18 Apr 2003, 23:53

after i played your levs antz, i agree with bartek ("traditional" style will die...)
- and i dont like that!
iwanted to write more, but now i forgot, its too late for me...

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Post by Abula » 18 Apr 2003, 23:58

Maybe this program could make some mark to level name? Like "R - Level name". R as Radim. It sure helps to create more quality levels but BarTek is right when he mention old levels. People will forget them.

This program won't be spread and get popular till it is simply enough. Moposite won't support now. Code better version :].
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Post by Kopaka » 19 Apr 2003, 09:29

Abula wrote:This program won't be spread and get popular till it is simply enough.
is can't be more simple...it just to copy your bitmap to the vectrast directory, rename it to inbmp.png and open bmp2lev.bat

BUT: I totally agree with Bartek !!

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Post by Abula » 19 Apr 2003, 12:46

Are there any people who likes the program AND have worked A LOT with levels in past?
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Post by Antz » 19 Apr 2003, 13:09

hard to say what 'a lot' is. i've made maybe two hundred levels and really like the program.
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duh! no pics!

Post by upchuck » 19 Apr 2003, 13:37

I have nightmare lgr, but it looks like moon lgr with no pics! those levs blow !
i love Elma

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alright buddy,

Post by upchuck » 19 Apr 2003, 13:42

this is the fullenest! "Someone" just make me open up 72 internet explorers. this both sucks and blows at the same time.
i love Elma

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Post by Abula » 19 Apr 2003, 14:31

Antz wrote:hard to say what 'a lot' is. i've made maybe two hundred levels and really like the program.
I don't mean battle levels but levels which require over 10 hours work etc.
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Post by eL » 19 Apr 2003, 16:46

1) Antz i played your level Skull. If those flowers wouldn't be inside they eyes, it'd be possible to finish by touching them?
2) No, we must NOT agree to supprot this program. I'm doing a levels for about 9 months, and you know what? Now everyone can do the same thing! + now LOM doesn't have any meaning - everyone, even those Kissas and allus can do winner-levels. There will not be such thing as quality levels!
I AM AGAINST!!!
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Post by onlainari » 19 Apr 2003, 16:57

so what does bartek etc want?
Levelmaking is not less similar then hoyling. Hey why not make a program that drives the bike for you as well since we are in this auto era blaah.
levels are the maps that we PLAY,hello dumbass,it was very much expected though you gonna say something stupid.

I think bartek and those 1 or 2 others that doesn't like this program are just selfish. Hey,it's about the game that we play. It's about the levels we play. I rather play good levels than bad levels, or...let's say,more good levels than bad levels.

Bartek wants to keep the general quality of level lower, just because he has done so much work making levels in in-game editor. You can't deny that statement,if you are against an improvement,it lowers the quality of levels among those levelmakers that could have used this program.

And this prog doesn't make it much easier to make big adventure levels. It's about the ideas and the routes which this doesn't serve. This only helps to see the map in big picture. I think everyone can draw this and that in editor and in paint the same way. This program only makes it faster(?) + enables you to draw circles and those better.

This program is not so "nice" to use ,not that comfortable,but it's easy. That is one reason many still won't use this.

And I won't even comment that abula's R joke.
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Post by eL » 19 Apr 2003, 17:08

i'm telling you, there won't be any GOOD HIGH QUALITY LEVELS! They all will be normal! Don't you understand?!!!!!!
The fact that bob isn't banned proves that even Abula makes mistakes...
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Post by MagnusB » 19 Apr 2003, 17:44

Stop double-posting, edit your first post instead.

What you're basically saying here is that it's bad that more people are able to make better levels.., is that right?

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Post by Jonas » 19 Apr 2003, 19:02

I don´t understand a shit how to get this program to work....It´s not fair to release programs that only computer experts can use!!!
TT: 43:18:94 Jonas [GF]

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Post by Abula » 19 Apr 2003, 19:37

onlainari: it wasn't a joke. It's exactly same thing that was suggested when Alovolt came (to put A mark next to WR if it is driven by using the patch).

By using that R we could see which levels were made without the prgoram and thereby give different appreciation. What's so bad or fun in it?
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Post by psy » 19 Apr 2003, 21:03

I really dont understand wtf is Barteks and eLs problem.
I've worked with levs alot in the past and I know making details is a bitch, and when we finally get some help and new possibilities youre against it.. Why do things the hard way?

This prog will help with planning the lev, and makes drawing details easier. That alone does NOT make a good lev, so you can cut that bullshit about noobs winning lom etc. You still need to edit it a lot in the editor to make it fun to play.

Old levs will be forgotten if you can draw cool letters and stuff in new ones? HELLO? If a lev gets forgotten its probably cos it's not worth remembering. The levs that I remember from the past are all levs that were fun to play, and seeing some cool details in new levs wont make me forget.

Anyway, I will support this prog and I hope ppl will start using it. It offers new possibilities that should not be ignored.

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Post by zworqy » 19 Apr 2003, 22:10

Abula and others: Don't say something is complicated until you've tried it out.

And I would like to repeat and specify: This program is NOT for making complete levels, and making perfect levels with this program (probably) takes longer time than doing it entirely in Elma, even though it's (kind of) easier.
<Fihlvein> another case of zworqy-is-always-right closed i guess
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Post by MagnusB » 20 Apr 2003, 21:02

The point here is that the program doesn't make it easier to make good levels! It makes it easier to make complicated shapes, and that's about it.

If someone invented a new kind of computer that was 1000 times faster than the best computers today, should we boycott it because the people who made the old computers were offfended?
It's just progress.

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Post by zworqy » 20 Apr 2003, 23:02

Go MagnusB! Best post ever! I suggest all you who hate this program read it a hundred times!
<Fihlvein> another case of zworqy-is-always-right closed i guess
<yoosef> zworqy doesnt suck at anything

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hi

Post by Mick » 21 Apr 2003, 00:49

is it forky knows what he is talking about?

magnus and psy's arguments are good. i agree totally. dont understand el's and barteks viewpoint at all. i think bartek might be worried that other people will make quality levels and that he will no longer be classed as the "best" level maker around. although i dont agree with that either. i dont know el's real reason behind his opinion.
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Post by Toaster » 21 Apr 2003, 23:20

Abula wrote:Are there any people who likes the program AND have worked A LOT with levels in past?
Yes

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