Will Milagros destroy Elma???

Jonas · Post by **Jonas** » 5 Jan 2003, 18:40

The question isnÂ´t if he can, because we all know that he really can, the question is will he do it???....is it just a question of when he does it?....Can he resist to rename himself and crush all the WR?....noone will notice...with this program excisting I say trust noone....And maybe this game is already destroyed?....I haven`t been in the elma scene from the beginning but I can imagine how much more fun it was back then when this kind of cheats didnÂ´t excist, noone can take a WR without having someone blaming him of cheating....is this fun?....how come we still play this?....are we to dumb to know any better or are we just tooo stuck in it?....maybe we are all waiting for a time when cheating is history and Elma is brought back to the game it once were...thanx for me

MagnusB · Post by **MagnusB** » 5 Jan 2003, 18:42

milagros works against cheating. That's a reward in itself.
It's not that easy to make a fake identity. Because of Nostrada/Deadelous, people will be very suspicious if a new guy suddenly enters the scene and takes a lot of WRs.
I don't think milagros will do that anyway, he's a nice guy.

onlainari · Post by **onlainari** » 6 Jan 2003, 15:18

well...it's just that elma is so great game that we play it despite all kinda things happens. I think milagros won't destroy it. He will put out some cool aspects and stuff for us to enjoy from now on,little by little. the most enjoyable elma sessions I had years ago...in the begin and at across times when it was more safe though...
[offtopic]
The old totaltime table in across was so enjoyable to watch at pexi's elastomania site.. address was something like saunalahti.fi/~dlc/007 ----abu or px or someone tell me the correct url :> but I still have it almost in my memory :) And then about this totaltime list..it was cool old colors and different size fonts on different positions. Abula give me links to pics so I can have some nostalgia? :) [end of it]

Kopaka · Post by **Kopaka** » 6 Jan 2003, 17:42

noone can take a WR without having someone blaming him of cheating

This was this way in cycling a very short time ago. When fx. Lance Armstrong bagan to win Tour de France lot blamed him for using doping.
The cyclist continued to do there sport...
But now it isn't talked that much about anymore by now.

So let's hope the same thing will happen in elma that all the talk about cheating will disappear[/quote]

mg · Post by mg » 6 Jan 2003, 19:18

i don't think that ruining the game depends on somebody who has fighted against cheat. Its more probably that perfect cheats are made by somebody who won't discover him(/her?)self ever.

You can feel the game ruined but remember that you can play it for fun, for finding styles by your own and it makes you continue playing elma.
I play it now for only this reason.

KD · Post by KD » 6 Jan 2003, 19:23

Yea, and styles can't be ,,cheated", you have to find it by yourself!

Ky.Jelly · Post by **Ky.Jelly** » 6 Jan 2003, 19:40

KD wrote:Yea, and styles can't be ,,cheated", you have to find it by yourself!

yea but new styles can be created by cheating,

MagnusB · Post by **MagnusB** » 6 Jan 2003, 19:45

You can't invent the styles with cheats. You can drive them.

Ky.Jelly · Post by **Ky.Jelly** » 6 Jan 2003, 19:55

yea but with cheating u can do multiple things as i understand e.g. timescale, gravity and invincibility,

you could use gravity or whotever to slightly change a already good style by just making it over one polygon instead of touching it, this could completley change the style and make it quite a bit quicker, the thing is you would only have to cheat one little part

Post by **Abula** » 6 Jan 2003, 20:05

www.dlc.fi/~ptahk007 (not working, only for onlainari)

http://www.moposite.com/images/screensh ... y_site.jpg

MagnusB · Post by **MagnusB** » 6 Jan 2003, 20:13

martin wrote:yea but with cheating u can do multiple things as i understand e.g. timescale, gravity and invincibility

That kind of cheat can always be detected I think. I'm not sure, but it sounds reasonable that you can detect it.

Abula: First link doesn't work. Was it supposed to?

Ky.Jelly · Post by **Ky.Jelly** » 6 Jan 2003, 20:25

yea im not saying they cant be detected, just that new styles can be found by cheating that may not be possible with out cheating

onlainari · Post by **onlainari** » 6 Jan 2003, 20:30

ah almost got the url right..now I remember it for years i'm sure...hmm that screenshot aaahh :) u got screenshot of tt list? it's as valuable for me to see as list of old wr-table at its look ...though wr-table has stayed the same look all the time.. I never made top20 ,but I dreamed it sometimes. Hmm can't remember if I was in top40

-- martin got point there.. with cheats you can invent new styles.. if you can make one part a bit faster ..then you probably more speed to this next part and you can pull something new there u know... EML's islands in the sky early cheat maybe was smth like new style if I recall it rite.

MagnusB · Post by **MagnusB** » 6 Jan 2003, 21:45

But he didn't use the cheat to find the style, he used it to drive. He doesn't have a program that figures out which ways to go for him. He saw a style, couldn't do it, so he cheated.

Post by **Abula** » 7 Jan 2003, 00:02

onlainari: PeXi has the whole site in his own computer, ask him to upload it or something, would be quite coal in fact.

Ky.Jelly · Post by **Ky.Jelly** » 7 Jan 2003, 01:39

or he could have discovered the style whilst he was cheating, and then modified it so that it didnt look like it was cheated by then again changing some part of his run

MagnusB · Post by **MagnusB** » 7 Jan 2003, 02:30

You don't understand the point. Technically, cheating isn't 'illegal' in this sense of the word before you actually send in a cheated rec. It doesn't matter how you find the style, as long as you send a valid non-cheated rec in.

martin wrote:then modified it so that it didnt look like it was cheated

You're saying that he will remove the traces of cheating? If he can do that then, hey, no problem. He'll just make a replay from scratch.

Ky.Jelly · Post by **Ky.Jelly** » 7 Jan 2003, 03:11

what i meant was, that he will only cheat on that part of the level as to allow him the opportunity to carry on with his new style.

what i said originally is that new styles can be created by cheating. of course theres no program that will find you styles, so therefore cheating can help people discover new ones as it opens oppurtunities to make ur run slightley different,

by this he could either use the cheat to then run the style or not use it but try sumthing different to be able to achieve what the cheating allowed him to acheive, either way the cheat like program that he used has created new styles,

take any racing game as an example, at the start u get a cheat of the interenet which allows u to play all the tracks and get all the fast cars. u play these tracks and gets practice in these fast cars, you then start the game properly in these crap old cars and have to race slightly differently but u are still trying to mimic the styles you learnt while driving the fast cars, this of course could be the other way round but that gets to complicated to explain

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 7 Jan 2003, 11:34

my wc414 was the last cheat i made (very sucky cheat comparing to some of my recs)
no more zigzag in 57.xx or so on

and ye, styles can be invited with cheat
i've made warmup in 13.5x that looks easily possible (but isn't)
also almost 16.xx in enigma (didn't jump high enough so pixels missing)
and about destroying...i can't destroy elma with playing with cheat but with spreading cheating source files or cheat ideas
at least 30 recs are beatable for me now with cheats

..i won't destroy elma, somebody else will
i'm just working on something to stop him

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 7 Jan 2003, 12:41

http://www23.brinkster.com/ramonelma/files/414xxx.rec

MP · Post by MP » 7 Jan 2003, 15:31

milagros wrote:..i won't destroy elma, somebody else will
i'm just working on something to stop him

Is it sure that somebody else will destroy elma?-)

ribot · Post by **ribot** » 7 Jan 2003, 22:06

MagnusB wrote:milagros works against cheating. That's a reward in itself.
It's not that easy to make a fake identity. Because of Nostrada/Deadelous, people will be very suspicious if a new guy suddenly enters the scene and takes a lot of WRs.
I don't think milagros will do that anyway, he's a nice guy.

nostrada worked against cheating. he's a nice guy. mila knows of undetectable cheats. my conclusion: cheaters will come again, but they're only cheaters if u have made up your mind what a cheater is.

MagnusB · Post by **MagnusB** » 7 Jan 2003, 23:38

ribot wrote:nostrada worked against cheating.

Well....

ribot wrote:he's a nice guy

He is a nice guy, but he's also the 'cheating type'. milagros is not (I think).

ribot wrote:mila knows of undetectable cheats.

And this is where we see that there's an immense difference between knowing how to cheat and actually cheating. milagros could easily have become the world's best kuski if he wanted, instead he tries to get rid of the cheating.

ribot wrote:my conclusion: cheaters will come again, but they're only cheaters if u have made up your mind what a cheater is.

dz · Post by dz » 7 Jan 2003, 23:58

MagnusB wrote:
ribot wrote:nostrada worked against cheating.
Well....

i talked alot with nostrada, and we often talked about possible cheating methods, possible cheaters, analyzed players etc, it was very fun to do with him

MagnusB wrote:
ribot wrote:he's a nice guy
He is a nice guy, but he's also the 'cheating type'. milagros is not (I think).

depends how you look at it; try to think as e.g. yourself playing with certain timescale, different game speed in other words, for a long time and then switching to faster speed, knowing no one will notice which way you do.. it's wrong of course, but i wouldn't say that he is that more of a cheating type of a person than milagros. milas cheated as well many recs and brought them to public, he just hasn't took the risk to try become something famous by unaccepted methods..

MagnusB wrote:
ribot wrote:mila knows of undetectable cheats.
And this is where we see that there's an immense difference between knowing how to cheat and actually cheating. milagros could easily have become the world's best kuski if he wanted, instead he tries to get rid of the cheating.

that might be true.. though, it requires only one mistake and it's pretty much all over, and we cant forget that mgen also has powerful anti cheat tools which milagros wouldn't know about if he were to decide go the dirty way

MagnusB · Post by **MagnusB** » 9 Jan 2003, 01:11

dz wrote: i talked alot with nostrada, and we often talked about possible cheating methods, possible cheaters, analyzed players etc, it was very fun to do with him

It's a point of course, but since he was cheating all along I think he tried to use his "fighting against cheating" as an aliby. After all, you can't cheat and fight against cheating at the same time.

dz wrote: depends how you look at it; try to think as e.g. yourself playing with certain timescale, different game speed in other words, for a long time and then switching to faster speed, knowing no one will notice which way you do.. it's wrong of course, but i wouldn't say that he is that more of a cheating type of a person than milagros. milas cheated as well many recs and brought them to public, he just hasn't took the risk to try become something famous by unaccepted methods..

You're probably right. I can't tell for sure of course, but I think that I personally would not cheat, even if I knew how to do it and was not at at a great risk of being caught I haven't been in that position, so I can't be sure, I just hope I'm right.
I won't pretend that I know milagros too well either, but the fact that he's never sent in a cheated rec for a serious purpose (correct me if I'm wrong) proves to me that he's not the type to cheat.

dz wrote: that might be true.. though, it requires only one mistake and it's pretty much all over, and we cant forget that mgen also has powerful anti cheat tools which milagros wouldn't know about if he were to decide go the dirty way

A good point, but like I said before, milagros has never even tried to cheat. As far as I know at least.

KD · Post by KD » 9 Jan 2003, 14:47

milagros wrote:my wc414 was the last cheat i made (very sucky cheat comparing to some of my recs)
no more zigzag in 57.xx or so on

and ye, styles can be invited with cheat
i've made warmup in 13.5x that looks easily possible (but isn't)

But we can detect whether you've cheated this warm up time or not, so it
won't be a new tech anymore!

MagnusB wrote: And this is where we see that there's an immense difference between knowing how to cheat and actually cheating. milagros could easily have become the world's best kuski if he wanted, instead he tries to get rid of the cheating.

It would be hard for mila to cheat, coz we all know he could do it. But i don't think he wanna cheat at all.

MagnusB · Post by **MagnusB** » 9 Jan 2003, 15:24

I meant that he could be cheating before he started working against cheating. Before anyone knew about all the other cheaters.

onlainari · Post by **onlainari** » 15 Aug 2003, 03:23

well 7 and half months has gone jonas, and he yet havent destroyed or did he ?

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 16 Aug 2003, 21:44

i should hurry up a bit

2fast · Post by **2fast** » 17 Aug 2003, 07:04

what mongo topic this is,ofcoz he will not destroy it

Jeppe · Post by **Jeppe** » 22 Apr 2007, 17:41

he sure destroyed teh balle fun at least ;(

zworqy · Post by **zworqy** » 22 Apr 2007, 17:44

Jeppe wrote:he sure destroyed teh balle fun at least ;(

no he created it

8-ball · Post by **8-ball** » 22 Apr 2007, 18:21

greatly improved it*

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 23 Apr 2007, 13:36

the concept has changed and the old #battle times will be missed, but this new system simply rocks the shit out of the old battles

A.K.B. · Post by **A.K.B.** » 24 Apr 2007, 07:59

true

berhabdul · Post by **berhabdul** » 4 Sep 2007, 06:58

To say some words. Milagros? No, this lame will never destroy Elma, he is too lame in being a bad guy, he is completely devoted to the Mopo crew. Thinking he is the right hand of Abula, or as if he was the 'great' guard of the WRs and of the technical order in the community is a big mistake. In fact this guy doesn't mean too much, he is not even a half as important as for instance Markku is. Somewhat precious are his applications that come from his skilled hands. Mila is not able to make the scene dead because of cheating possibilites.

Why?

Well, firstly - any Kuski knows that this comunnity is a very close one. Unlike the scenes in other games, in here most people do know one another, very often remember one's TT, recognize one's skills, sometimes even - thanks to Mopolauta - know some private facts of their lives. So it's hard to cheat even if someone got, or made even 'undetectable cheating tools'. Now we have a paradoxical situation - if you want to cheat, be skilled first. Even a save&load is useless without skills, believe me, and I mean quite pro ones.

What's more, why to cheat here? It's too hard, and even idiot. Furthermore, how many players join the community each year? This game isn't popular, is just stupid and funny, how many (i know - countless) times have you had an occasion to hear 'omg this stupid 2d game' or 'haha you are playing this idiot elastic bike'... Who joined recently? Mawane? AKB? It's hilarious! A stable player joining, hoyling internals, or at least treating this game seriously is an extraordinary event. Now the laughter ends, a sad thing takes place. Maybe realise, or at least try to realise how many quit. How great many good, valuable players. John - quits. Zweq - quits. niN -quits. Leeland: "i'm just not getting that buzz anymore." Dynamo - Inactive, <lol>. (...) And now realise how many stop playing without even any announcement of that.

Finally, in which parts of the scene to cheat? Are there any contests maybe? Their number is constantly falling down. In fact, belma has been one of the factors that have contributed to falling apart the Elastomania playing community. Why?2 Well2, Belma gives us a fake feeling what something is really happening, it's hard to understand for some that those are only battles, just with some new features implemented. Why to make a contest, we can play battles, (wow i can see you) in belma. Why to play internals, and send your state.dat to Moposite to get your TT updated, 'omg i have 53rd in the whole world'! (Oh, sorry,

, forgot that they are actually never updated) Why to organise World Cup, we can play a super-mega slowness level instead. See? There's not any real possibility to cheat, if to harm the scene it's way easier to spam, make some server down, or such. At least there exist such people who want to have 10,000 accounts in belma. At least.

Personally, I do approve of belma, it's a great, great thing containing many useful features, and is open for its development. And it's not its fault that it increases the level of laziness among creative Elastomaniacs such as Zebra, Skint0r, Abula or px.
The scene reached its peak? What else? What an idiot excuse... Face up to the fact, now I will guess some theoretical minimum times. Times in which some things could be done in my opinion.

Writing (omg, haha it's already written) the script for the next WC : 0 hrs.
Making it working on the site: 1hrs.
Advertising it and after that choosing the levels for eevnts from received: 3hrs.
Checking the replays with mila's super tools, and printing the results with someone else's tools: max 2 hrs at the end of every event.

I doubt it's that super hard, and it's max ridiculous that even px or Abula, that important people for the community, cannot find the time to host, playing such a great role, event.

Making the TT list on Moposite or Paprika - wherever it is now - being a bit automatized, so you could just choose the file state.dat and have it uploaded and see your awesome TT on the list updated. Can you even imagine, how it would be great? We could even have a new button in belma that would update your state to Moposite. 'omg just 12,74 seconds to Ali [CART]!! i can be 51st in the world in few minutes, i don't have to wait for the next update (1 year or more)': 3 hrs.

Stats, Belma stats. How great would be to have them, and some rating system would be nice aswell. : 5 hrs.

So, all in all, the scene is not even worth to cheat in, milagros is a pawn, and people are lazy, letting the scene fall apart. Uh

Luther · Post by **Luther** » 4 Sep 2007, 09:04

Amazing. you are totally right =)

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 4 Sep 2007, 10:21

"What's more, why to cheat here? It's too hard, and even idiot."

as good as some parts of the text are, I cant take seriously an idiot cheater trying to tell others that cheating is idiotic.

dissing mila will as well go to deaf ears, thanks to people like mila or skint we can play elastomania online, even how hard some fucking morons try to sabotage the FTP

wjelo · Post by **wjelo** » 4 Sep 2007, 11:28

ye, i also don't understand such whining, especially a xiiter
do u play internals berh? nat
do u play contests? nat
do u xiit and play fool in belma? yes
did u cheat in polish and slavic contests? yes
do u keep creating new accounts on the polish elma forum? yes
do you/did you spam lauta? yes
did you ever do something valuable in the scene/help someone or anything? not

why the fuck do you whine?
better you get the fuck out cuz ppl like you make the scene worse, nat mila

zworqy · Post by **zworqy** » 4 Sep 2007, 13:06

worst post ever berh

dorTrus · Post by **dorTrus** » 4 Sep 2007, 13:43

berhabdul wrote: Making the TT list on Moposite or Paprika - wherever it is now - being a bit automatized, so you could just choose the file state.dat and have it uploaded and see your awesome TT on the list updated. Can you even imagine, how it would be great? We could even have a new button in belma that would update your state to Moposite. 'omg just 12,74 seconds to Ali [CART]!! i can be 51st in the world in few minutes, i don't have to wait for the next update (1 year or more)': 3 hrs.

At our (russian) site recently all records updates switched to automatic mode, thx to Maska and crew. It`s really really cool! Because it concernes not only internals, but the rest 13 official level packs of our elmaclub

btw, Mila rules!

berhabdul · Post by **berhabdul** » 4 Sep 2007, 13:47

Just wanted to pointed out the truth, of course I didn't want to insult milagros, in fact I admire hime for what he did, but facing up to the fact he's only a pawn.
It's just up to you, up to you mind, how you will comment these facts, try sometimes to focus on actually the message, not on who (yes, I'm a cheater) wrote it, Luther did so.

WiElOryB, your last statement

did you ever do something valuable in the scene/help someone or anything? not

seems to be false, whilst the second last

do you/did you spam lauta? yes

might be only your private opinion, because I can think in other way and I have never been banned for such strange reason, otherwise they're true.

Take the bull by the horns and comment the facts, not my person (which has already been commented enough many times).

Sla · Post by **Sla** » 4 Sep 2007, 16:48

wow, That was one of the best post that i have read berh.
Sincerely, i did not have very much respect to you (as many people to my) but now, yes
-
There are many things that are true, like:

To say some words. Milagros? No, this lame will never destroy Elma, he is too lame in being a bad guy, he is completely devoted to the Mopo crew. Thinking he is the right hand of Abula, or as if he was the 'great' guard of the WRs and of the technical order in the community is a big mistake. In fact this guy doesn't mean too much, he is not even a half as important as for instance Markku is

I though this some times but i never was capable of saying it
-

Writing (omg, haha it's already written) the script for the next WC : 0 hrs.
Making it working on the site: 1hrs.
Advertising it and after that choosing the levels for eevnts from received: 3hrs.
Checking the replays with mila's super tools, and printing the results with someone else's tools: max 2 hrs at the end of every event.
I doubt it's that super hard, and it's max ridiculous that even px or Abula, that important people for the community, cannot find the time to host, playing such a great role, event.

Making the TT list on Moposite or Paprika - wherever it is now - being a bit automatized, so you could just choose the file state.dat and have it uploaded and see your awesome TT on the list updated. Can you even imagine, how it would be great? We could even have a new button in belma that would update your state to Moposite. 'omg just 12,74 seconds to Ali [CART]!! i can be 51st in the world in few minutes, i don't have to wait for the next update (1 year or more)': 3 hrs.
Stats, Belma stats. How great would be to have them, and some rating system would be nice aswell. : 5 hrs.

This is the reality. I, and much people thinks that next World Cup, Belma stats and others important things or events are so hard, almost impsy and also a dream, but it is not.
-
And finally and the most important for me:

Take the bull by the horns and comment the facts, not my person (which has already been commented enough many times).

-
and WiElOryB, you are not anybody to decide it.

culinko · Post by **culinko** » 4 Sep 2007, 18:04

i dont't agree with sla, nor with berh...

btw berh+sla=? :O

Sla · Post by **Sla** » 4 Sep 2007, 18:42

opinions are opinios

hmm see: berh+sla=elma players, thats all

i wonder....: CuLiNo (Only one nick)= ?. i dont want to offence ok
he wrote much trues, you dont want to understand.

Palme · Post by **Palme** » 4 Sep 2007, 20:35

Im more on elmasite, so i m not that familiar with "your" elma scene.

berhabdul wrote:To say some words. Milagros? No, this lame will never destroy Elma, he is too lame in being a bad guy, he is completely devoted to the Mopo crew. Thinking he is the right hand of Abula, or as if he was the 'great' guard of the WRs and of the technical order in the community is a big mistake. In fact this guy doesn't mean too much, he is not even a half as important as for instance Markku is. Somewhat precious are his applications that come from his skilled hands. Mila is not able to make the scene dead because of cheating possibilites.

First of all, i don t get this at all, what does markku??? THought he s just a prodriver ;P

Despite this, your arguments suck, cuz mila is very important, there are only a hand full of players who are lrespected by all alike - mila is definatly one of them.

berhabdul wrote: What's more, why to cheat here? It's too hard, and even idiot.

well, that s what i call ridiculous.

berhabdul wrote: Finally, in which parts of the scene to cheat? Are there any contests maybe? Their number is constantly falling down. In fact, belma has been one of the factors that have contributed to falling apart the Elastomania playing community. Why?2 Well2, Belma gives us a fake feeling what something is really happening, it's hard to understand for some that those are only battles, just with some new features implemented. Why to make a contest, we can play battles, (wow i can see you) in belma. Why to play internals, and send your state.dat to Moposite to get your TT updated, 'omg i have 53rd in the whole world'! (Oh, sorry, , forgot that they are actually never updated) Why to organise World Cup, we can play a super-mega slowness level instead. See? There's not any real possibility to cheat, if to harm the scene it's way easier to spam, make some server down, or such. At least there exist such people who want to have 10,000 accounts in belma. At least.

Well, obviously, you think the community is stupid. Why should anyone forget about a contest/ cup cuz of belma - are we retarded? This is no complex economic problem or sach - so don t try to reveal fake feelings wich aren t existing (even if that make s you look reeeally cool and clever). All go to belma cuz it s fun and when there is no cool contest, why don t play belma? Belma needs no work, for most of us -well but mila isn t that necessary hm...but he keeps the fake feeling, right. Okay and finally, we don t have the right to demand cups. That s basically it. When they have no time (or they just don t feel like making a cup), we have to deal with it. You can complain, but not blame them for some stagnation or less vitallity of the community. The community is more than the elite.

Berh, when mila is a pawn you are an idiot (that is definatly offense)

Okay, that s what i wanted to say

J-sim · Post by **J-sim** » 4 Sep 2007, 23:53

lazyness is actually the key word here. the average age of elma players probably keeps growing (as berh also pointed out not THAT many new players join the scene) and the older and more veteran a player you get the more lazy you get. the days with almost hundreds of sites (team sites or personal sites) with record lists for all kinds of level packs is long gone and so is more or less also the days of cups. these contests have tradionally needed you to send in your result via an email. most people just don't bother doing that anymore. so you might get somewhere by implementing automated systems like for the last world cup or as seen on skintatious or kopa site, but even that might not be enough. it is just way too easy to get your elma fix in belma now. if we want something else than just battles or "super-mega slowness level" we might have to make it work together with belma. i myself wont do anything at all for taking the elma scene in new directions, i'm just way too lazy. but i'm grateful that there are some guys out there doing some really cool stuff still. belma has probably made the average elma player even more lazy, but it doesn't have to be a negative thing. i see the problems you are pointing out berh, but i also see us getting somewhere, i mean belma isn't even finished yet, and we are really not in a hurry. but sure some kind of wellorganized really big contest some time before this year ends would be nice!

jaytea · Post by **jaytea** » 5 Sep 2007, 10:32

my vote for stupidest post of the year: berh

berhabdul · Post by **berhabdul** » 6 Sep 2007, 03:12

Surprisingly, no Lukazz' post in this topic with

fuck off berh

- amazing...

I'll try to sort a bit your comments, strange way but can't think of any better way at the moment to make you want to understand the whole matter.

Luther wrote:Amazing. you are totally right =)

Good answer, seems Luther understood all the things I've been trying to show. Objective, and brave mind.

Zweq wrote:as good as some parts of the text are

Good comment, Another person, apparently another supepro having gotten the message.

Zweq wrote:I cant take seriously an idiot cheater trying to tell others that cheating is idiotic.

Bad comment, If you can't take seriously former druggies, thieves, murderers who admit that drugging, stealing and murdering is idiotic, just laugh at them. Naaah, not in that way. Aloud

Zweq wrote:dissing mila will as well go to deaf ears, thanks to people like mila or skint we can play elastomania online

Good comment, I wrote the stuff about mila in a bit bad way, so it looks for some people as if i have dissed him or something. No, I just wanted to show mila's position, and his true role in this community he is playing. Fortunately, some people got my point. He created online playing, very nice. Belma. But now, how does belma affect the scene... Anywas, again thanks for mila for the work he took on.

wiElOryB wrote:why the fuck do you whine?
better you get the fuck out cuz ppl like you make the scene worse

Definitely a bad comment, it's obvious this person isn't even interested in what this topic, and what the posts are about. Just simply taking advantage of the situation to, for 4345th time, swear a bit.

zworqy wrote:worst post ever berh

Bad comment. I like your comments, but can't mark as good

. you probably forgot to explain what you find bad. So let me create a short humorous dialogue, that might have existed and have been the reason of such.

Zworqy's Mum [shouting from kitchen]: Jonas! Jonas, dinner is ready!
Zworqy [angry voice]: I don't want to eat! I'm not hungry! Thrash the dinner out!
ZM [entering zworqy's room]: Bunny, you always liked pancakes with ketchup, what's wrong with you? Oh... this game with a bike that you are really interested in, any news, maybe some records of yours, cookie?
Z [shouting, nervously closing Mopolauta window]: None of your business, oargh!
ZM [looking at him]: Oh, you are behaving so strangely today... Don't forget to tidy your room! [leaving]
Z [hungry] [logging in again] [whispering to himself]: Now-the-laug-hter ends... F-ace-up-to-the-fact... thin-gs-could-be-d..one... [starting to speak aloud] No! No! It's bad! Very bad! [shouting] Worst! The worst!

Sla wrote:I though this some times but i never was capable of saying it

Good comment, great, very nice I helped you! Sometimes it's hard to make one's opinion into words, particularly when you have to do it in a foreign language...

Sla wrote:This is the reality. I, and much people thinks that next World Cup, Belma stats and others important things or events are so hard, almost impsy and also a dream, but it is not.

Very good comment, supported the truth and even explained it a bit more, good job, way to go.

CuLiNo wrote:i dont't agree with sla, nor with berh...

Bad comment. It's funny how people cannot agree with just written facts. Oh, maybe I underestimate you and you have got the power to do that... Unfortunately, you haven't posted anything else...

Palme wrote:your arguments suck, cuz mila is very important

Bad comment. Of course milagros is quite important, but my point there was that Mila is not able to make the scene dead and his importance is not relevant. But yes, i wrote it in a bit confusing way...

Palme wrote:
berhabdul wrote: What's more, why to cheat here? It's too hard, and even idiot.
well, that s what i call ridiculous.

Bad comment. Probably saw Zweq's and did same. Lame. Look above for explaination why bad.

Palme wrote:Well, obviously, you think the community is stupid. Why should anyone forget about a contest/ cup cuz of belma - are we retarded? This is no complex economic problem or sach - so don t try to reveal fake feelings wich aren t existing (even if that make s you look reeeally cool and clever). All go to belma cuz it s fun and when there is no cool contest, why don t play belma? Belma needs no work, for most of us -well but mila isn t that necessary hm...but he keeps the fake feeling, right. Okay and finally, we don t have the right to demand cups. That s basically it. When they have no time (or they just don t feel like making a cup), we have to deal with it. You can complain, but not blame them for some stagnation or less vitallity of the community. The community is more than the elite.

Very bad comment, because of explaination is on a level of a kid of 10 and isn't worth a coin. Yuk, really disgusting, because you haven't really expressed anything logical. I don't think the community is stupid, I just think it's unaware of some simple processes that are taking place. "Why should anyone forget about a contest/ cup cuz of belma - are we retarded?" Are you trying to be funny? Would you call a guy having fun at a party, forgetting about his homework retarded? And the feeling I have described isn't fake, it is genuine, I was observing the facts about belma, and many can confirm this fact. Read my post again, think about it again and I'm sure you will set up a similar conclusion. Just few hours later, after you, J-sim wrote

J-sim wrote:belma has probably made the average elma player even more lazy

so I'm not only the one, who caught this obvious truth.
"When they have no time (or they just don t feel like making a cup), we have to deal with it. You can complain, but not blame them for some stagnation or less vitallity of the community." Complete lack of logic this time...

World Cups were always making a great rush in the scene, and during them there was an unique climate of the scene being seriously alive.
Before, and after a World Cup still the rush remained. Some beated some recs, some can't believe it was possible, some were moaning, some kuskis with their teams were happy with their glorious victories. Oh, how it's nice
We can't organize World Cup, it's attributable to the Moposite Crew.
We don't have the right to demand the Cups.
There scene is a bit dull at the moment.
A World Cup would be one of the things that would surely help to do something with it, to have people interested and to conduct an unique climate.
World Cups were provided, but now for quite a long time we haven't had any.
Making a World Cup is not that time-consuming as i proved, nor hard and surely not impossible at the moment.

Palme wrote:You can complain, but not blame them for some stagnation or less vitallity of the community.

One of these statements is untrue. Yes, funny, but it's your quote, palme. So I can complain, but not blame. Interesting.

. I know what's the reason of some thing and by complaining I have to look out not to, accidentaly, blame.

Brian: Oh no, Stewie! Again! You took a dump on a sofa, so close to TV. And this awful smell! The whole room now smells even worse than Peter's feet after his around-the-world trip!
Stewie: You! You cockeyed dog! Burn in HELL! Slowly!
Brian: No, no, actually I don't blame you for that awful smell in here, and for that I can't watch my favourite TV show! I just wanted to complain about doing shit on a sofa!
Stewie: Uhoh, eh, dog, dooog, wait!

"The community is more than the elite." - Random sentence maker? Where to find it? ... Oh found! Was at some Russian site

. A big tree is funnier than a small monkey.

Unsurprisingly, you didn't get anything, Palme. Unsurprisingly, because for instance you are being told for months to stop speaking German at belma chat... but you still do it. If you can't understand the simple rule, how could you have understood my points? You couldn't have, yes. You just posted some illogical sentences pretending to be wise and clever (unfortunately, the one you attacked has simply proved your failure) probably in order to just show that you "don't like this fucking guy" either.

J-sim wrote:lazyness is actually the key word here. the average age of elma players probably keeps growing (as berh also pointed out not THAT many new players join the scene) and the older and more veteran a player you get the more lazy you get. the days with almost hundreds of sites (team sites or personal sites) with record lists for all kinds of level packs is long gone and so is more or less also the days of cups. these contests have tradionally needed you to send in your result via an email. most people just don't bother doing that anymore. so you might get somewhere by implementing automated systems like for the last world cup or as seen on skintatious or kopa site, but even that might not be enough. it is just way too easy to get your elma fix in belma now. if we want something else than just battles or "super-mega slowness level" we might have to make it work together with belma. i myself wont do anything at all for taking the elma scene in new directions, i'm just way too lazy. but i'm grateful that there are some guys out there doing some really cool stuff still. belma has probably made the average elma player even more lazy, but it doesn't have to[ be a negative thing. i see the problems you are pointing out berh, but i also see us getting somewhere, i mean belma isn't even finished yet, and we are really not in a hurry. but sure some kind of wellorganized really big contest some time before this year ends would be nice!

An excellent comment, can't agree more. A supplement of my saying.

jaytea wrote:my vote for stupidest post of the year: berh

Right, what can be more stupid then a pupil saying at school to another pupil-,who can fail a schoolyear because of bad marks, "Study just a bit, make only one homework. It will make you pass!"? But the one with bad marks was really angry about that. After a lesson he kicked ass of a good pupil well... How couldn't have the good guy foreseen it... How stupid must have he been... Stupidest. You get my vote in your poll, jaytea

jaytea · Post by **jaytea** » 6 Sep 2007, 11:07

my first thought was that you're trying hard, way too hard, to be analytical and sound intelligent. this latest post confirms that. it sounds like you're trying to copy Sierra's writing style and vernacular (plus the colors, what the hell is that). you want people to agree with you? just chill out, stop trying to be something you're not and just go with the flow

you seem to have suddenly taken a greater interest in the scene and are slowly moving away from that point of no return, where social life and elma part ways. GO BACK, its not worth it

Will Milagros destroy Elma???

Will Milagros destroy Elma???

good ol' times

opinion

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